Being blackmailed by in laws.

[Daisytrotter]

Sorry, more of a wwyd but am sitting here in pieces, really need advice.

Apologies if I don't reply straight away but have to pick up my friend from the airport.

My mil was diagnosed with dementia two weeks ago. This is after a year of some behaviour which could be considered odd. Interestingly, it was me who suggested that she visit her gp after I found that she had taken the fluffy inserts out of my croc shoes and was wearing them as slippers Also, she has been having some significant memory problems, but all in all she functions quite well.

Since ds was born 14 months ago, mil has come to stay with us for a week every month. Fil comes down twice a year or we go to stay with them (they live in Swansea. It's not an arrangement that I was ever happy with but ds is her first grandchild and I wanted her to have a strong relationship with him. however, her visits have become increasingly hard work for me as she turns the fridge off at the mains, leaves the back door open as well as other things which a not dangerous per se but annoying. Also dh is at work all day so I am at home with her.

When she comes down she really badgers us to go out so she can babysit. On the three occasions she has babysat, we have come back to find ds absolutely hysterical. I put it down to the fact that he doesn't really know her but now I think she may be leaving him for long periods to cry.

Anyway, since the diagnosis came to light, I spoke to dh and said that I am no longer happy for her to come for a week every month and I don't want her to babysit. I suggested that her and fil come every two months. I just have a feeling that she was using the time with us for a break for herself and i feel as her disease progresses, fil will be using the break as respite care. Dh thought this was a good idea and put it to them when he called them.

They went ballistic. Mil insisted on keeping to the arrangement of monthly visits and babysitting and fil said we were compromising her dignity. I understand that they are struggling with the diagnosis but I also have to think of ds and my own life.

Then fil dropped a bombshell. They had lent us money to buy our house and he said that if mil was not good enough to babysit then their money wasn't good enough for us either. He has demanded it back which essentially means we have to sell the house and rent as we would not be able to buy another property. He has also threatened us with legal action if we do not pay the money back in full by the end of June.

I don't know what to do. They are extremely well off and don't need the money so this is tantamount to blackmail. I have no issue with them visiting I just don't want mil every month and I certainly don't want her to babysit.

Help?

There's a difference between deciding someone is toxic and removing them, and saying "unless you do what I want I won't let you see the child any more." The first is reasonable, the second IMO is blackmail. I don't think that's an example to set, myself. Or a way I'd want to live, either. It's letting their bad behaviour dictate yours. Clean hands is easier to live with.

I would be thinking about the impact this could all have on my 14 month old, though. At this point she may not be that attached to Grandma/impacted by the situation. At 2 or 3 having someone who is suffering from dementia about, with the consequent stress on the primary adults in her life, could very much have an adverse impact. Worth pondering, but as I say that's a child-focused concern, not using the child as a lever.

I don't think there's any harm in pointing out to FIL that his behaviour will damage the relationships between the two households really badly, after making it clear that what is being offered is still actually quite a lot and as much as can be managed. But honesty about how people are feeling over bad behaviour is different to specific threats back. To me, at least.

The legal threads are HERE, by the way. Hopefully it will be useful advice.

is there any chance FIL is in denial about his wifes condition? can you raise incidents witgh FIL - accidents that have made you worried for your child saftey (leaving gas on oven etc...). can you say you willmake every effort for child and MIL to have time together but you won't put childs saftey at risk. Saftey has to be priority.

Dittany - agree that expecting the DIL to provide free care a quarter of the time is taking the piss, when neither son is doing much. As mentioned, the cost of such care would be phenomenal.

I am wondering now whether the 1 in 4 arrangement was seen by FIL as a quid pro quo for the house money. Families often seem to have things like this - one side assumes the other understands, when they don't at all.

Sorry but I am fuming that the desires of a in-laws- and I don't know if this has been said before but I 'll say it now anyway, and what c*ap in-laws they are because what kind of people will impose themselves upon their child and their family for a week KNOWING that they may be (admittedly through unfortunate circumstances I know) a very real danger to them- should come before the welfare of a toddler!!

It's effing unbelievable, really it is, this 'in-laws come before safety of toddler' attitude that is being portrayed by some here!!

The mil will need 24/7 supervision for goodness sake, she will need professional care of sorts. The opening poster can't reasonably be expected to keep an eye on her and a toddler at all times. Tell you rich fil to shell out for a carer.

how is your dh takng this? what did he say to his dad? i wouldnt ever speak to them again. it's a step too far to threaten my family with homelessness

Just say NO!

It's effing unbelievable, really it is, this 'in-laws come before safety of toddler' attitude that is being portrayed by some here!!

Quite. I wonder if their POV would be the same if it were THEM who were expected to look after a mentally ill old woman, along with a toddler, ONE WEEK IN EVERY FOUR.

Doubt it somehow

what is your husband saying about all this ? has he spoken to his dad ? fwiw I dont think that you should be used as respite care for one week a month .
As wammster says tell your rich fil to shell out for a carer

Wow. OK, firstly the loan for your house purchase. You are paying it back at £400 a month. Do you do so regularly and never miss any payments? If so, I don't think they would have any kind of legal grievance, as the terms of the loan are uncertain and the court would probably only order you to pay back what you can afford anyway, and this seems a reasonable amount. They would also have to go to court to insist on it being paid back under new terms, which could take at least a year.

Thats a really shitty thing for your father to say. However I can kind of see where he is coming from a little bit - they have been very generous in putting you in a position to buy a house and because you have borrowed from them, they do kind of have a hold over you in a way someone who has paid entirely for their own house would not. So its an appalling way to put it, but you do owe them morally. I guess your one week a month is the price they think you have to pay for them getting you on the housing ladder.

I certainly wouldn't let her babysit your DS on her own, but thats hardly a problem, is it? Just don't leave her in sole charge. I think with borrowing the money, while you hope that most people won't call in favours, you've made a rod for you own back. Thats one of the reasons I'd never borrow money off DP's parents - I know they'd be a bloody nightmare!

Ouch. Horrible situation for you all.

My mother has vascular dementia and it is horrible. I couldn't deal with her for a weekend let alone a week a month. And she is MY mother!

Your MIL should def not be babysitting. It's a no brainer. But of course she won't understand why. And she will be hurt and upset. And she will be hurt and upset that you don't want her to visit so often. However - I completely understand why.

I think your DH needs to go visit his parents and explain to his Dad on his own that you have been finding it hard anyway as due to the dementia she does odd and unsafe things. So a week a month on her own is out of the question. I would explain that it is not that you don't all love her etc but that the strain and responsibility is too great. And actually getting through to someone with dementia can be like talking to a brick wall so if she gets an idea in her head - like babysitting - it can be a nightmare trying to talk them out of it. Your DH needs to point out that it is a bit unfair to expect you to shoulder all that while looking after an active toddler.

You also need to get your FIIL to get systems in place like carers etc. With my mother getting her to shower or change her clothes was a nightmare and we were finding dirty pants all over the place. Now a carer comes in 3 times a week and showers her and she has incontinence pants. Makes it all much easier for my Dad to cope with.

Maybe if you could research and help with all this your FIL would feel less abandoned? (I know you are not abandoning them but that is what they probably feel like and your FIL will be having MIL go on and on about it all. My Mum goes on and on about stuff and will not accept things. For instance she said to my sister yesterday that the foundation my niece was wearing was lovely. Sis replied that niece wasn't wearing any foundation. There was almost an argument as mum would NOT accept that my 10 year old niece was not wearing foundation! My dad also has to feed nuts and seeds to two stone squirrel statues he has in the garden as my mum inisists!)

You know what, your fil sounds like a -insert worst four-letter word you can think of here- really he does. Probably used money to control people all his life and, unfortunately, he is know doing this to you and your dh. I am not having a go at you for accepting his money- god it is only TOO easy to take money when offered when it helps you out of a spot, but, really, deep down you know you should not have, don't you?

Get legal advice first, that's my advice. If your fil STILL insists on pursuing this and does not back down, explain that you will pay him back as is affordable to the family but, in the meantime you are happy for them to visit on your terms not theirs. To be honest, any judge I think would deem this to be a clear case of blackmail. Really, I do, because, frankly, it is obviously so.

Nobody with any reason at all would think that looking after a person with dementia 24/7 while looking after a toddler simultaneously for a whole week in four was reasonable deal for your inlaws money.

Surely the relationship with the FIL has already broken down if he's issuing threats about legal action re: the money.
How can you go back from there?

"So its an appalling way to put it, but you do owe them morally."

I don't agree. That would be to conform to the FIL's manipulation - 'you owe me.'

It would be unhealthy to conduct a relationship on those terms.

You will get in serious trouble if anything hapPens to your son whilst he us in the care I'd somebody you know to be unfit to care for him, that is the line your DH needs to take when HE discusses this with his father. But unless they specified the money was a loan with a repayment date then they can sod off frankly.

tell your rich fil to shell out for a carer

yep, god forbid anyone should have to take time out of their own lives to care for a sick relative...

I did say in my original post, that of course it isnt safe for the lady to now look after her grandchild on her own, but an all out family war is not going to help matters, and a bit of tact and diplomac is required in this situation. The FIL needs help and is probably in shock at the fact his wife is not going to recover and the future for them both looks bleak, this is a time when people NEED the support and help from their family.

The money issue was more likely than anything an angry reaction as he may well be feeling their money was good enough, but when the chips are down, his son and daughter-in-law want to see them even less.

Incidentally Daisy just because it wasn't in writing doesn't mean there wasn't an agreement about this loan. If you've been regularly paying 400 a month they may not be able to arbitrarily alter the terms that way. (I missed that bit). It's not reasonable IMO, especially if it makes you homeless and they don't need the dosh, and courts can be surprisingly reasonable sometimes. Worth checking out your actual position, surely? I missed that post before.

Please, please post in legal. They may have good news for you. No point worrying if there's no cause to. It could be that you have to repay in full, but it equally be that you don't and the existing arrangement would be upheld. I mean it isn't a secured loan, is it - they have no charge on the house as Dittany points out - and courts aren't keen on making families homeless when they are keeping to previously arranged repayments.

Remember, any judge that does NOT put safety of weakest member in all this i.e. safety of toddler will be heavily slated. And having a person with dementia around for a whole week while there is a young toddler present is not exactly safe, is it? Seriously, I think a judge that does not side with you having heard whole story would be really lacking in judgment.

squeakytoy it isn't EVEN less, is it? It's from 1 in 4 days of a DIL's life to 1 in 7. She also has a toddler to think of. I don't know how much you see of your MIL but I would hazard that that is a stack more than the average. I also hazard that you aren't that familiar with dementia sufferers (apologies if it is the absolute reverse and that is your investment here). She sounds a bloody good DIL, frankly.

Do you know what it is like to care for somebody with dementia, squeakytoy? It's not a broken leg or a bout of flu. It requires another adult keeping an eye on what they do 24/7. How the hell is the opening poster supposed to relax knowing that her house could be burnt down AND keep an eye on a toddler who is into everything. Sick relative? Indeed.

Yes, damned right she sounds like a good dil, god she is better than I ever was. Couldn't bear mine for more than a day! She, however, sounds blooming great!

I think YANBU. Waiting for the diagnosis instead of acting on the behaviour you witnessed will have done you no favours but I can understand that inertia/denial/turning a blind eye all play a part and you are only human.

What you have proposed seems reasonable in the circumstances. There is no way i would allow someone with dementia to look after a child.

If you have been repaying the loan and not missed any payments it is unlikely your in-laws will be able to demand repayment through the courts unless you have signed a contract that says they can demand full repayment at any time. Depending on the amount the costs of court proceedings may be prohibitive for them any way.

I would suspect your in-laws are reacting out of hurt and anger. Let things calm down and then you both need to sit down and speak to them. I disagree it is your dh's problem. It is currently your problem too so you need to be involved in any discussion.

Just out of interest, how does MIL currently travel to you? I'm assuming she can't drive and at some point travelling by public transport will become impossible.

DAISY - what does your husband think of all this? What is his reaction?