To say that I was really shocked at the state of this woman's house?

[sunshine76]

I know everyone has different standards about how they keep their house, but we went round for a lunch/playdate thing today and I was really shocked at how messy the house was.

I have never been judgy about this type of thing ever before (and have lived in my fair share of minging student houses in the past), but it really was shocking to me. Stuff everywhere, clutter, laundry, broken things, things piled up in corners, stuff all down the stairway, stuff all over bathroom floor. The kitchen you could not see any surface and there was a huge (more than one night) pile of dirty pans.

I know we all have our off days, but I was pretty shocked that she invite me over when it was like that.

I am pretty sure she does not have any mental issues, is a SAHM with two kids and happily married/not short of money, the DC sleep well etc. Are some people naturally this messy? If she is too busy why doesn't the husband not pull a finger out and do some tidying when he gets home?

I nearly laughed when she suggested her DC tidy their toys before lunch, as they were by far the least of the mess/chaos.

I was grateful for lunch and she is nice but it has weirded me out a bit seeing how they live.

Anyone else been truly shocked by someone's house?

One of my best friends moved into a brand new house and I had to smile inwardly at how quickly they managed to make it quite minging! They are the 'too busy and interesting to clean' type of folks as well, and though they don't go for the full Mr Trebus look and are not especially untidy, they just don't seem to notice dirt. It gets cleaned/vaccumed on a very surface level and the kitchen is always decent(ish) but they never ever seem to do things like wipe shelves or clean windows or vacuum skirting boards and it's quite clear that there are years and years of a thick build up of dirt there. It's horrid.

I used their daughter's en-suite loo once and it was quite, quite revolting. The thing is there are two parents in full-time employment, but my friend is a teacher so there is plenty of holiday time to catch up on household jobs, yet she's always saying she has no time. She has one adult daughter living at home and one at uni who comes and goes - Four adults in a house, all capable of mucking in with the cleaning, and all able to contribute to the cost of a cleaner.

Having said all that, my house is generally very clean (I have a good cleaner) but we an untidy family and if you turn up unannounced the kitchen is almost always a tip. Too many lazy teenagers coming and going at different times and helping themselves to food, leaving cups and glasses and crisp packets all over the house. I get sick of tidying it all then I turn my back and it's a tip again. I refuse to do the kitchen more than once a day now, so it's frequently a bombsite and I've NEVER been the sort of person who washes a cup up as soon as they've used it.

I was thinkikng about this thread last night, and my posts and im thinking, shite, they probably think i never do any cleaning but i do, i do loads, at least two hours a day but my house is still a pit, i know women with lovely clean houses and they don't spend half the time cleaning that i do - but you would think i never lifted a cup. Whats that all about?

How can anyones house be a pit if you do 2 hours of cleaning day? It's just not possible. If your house is messy and cluttered then you must spend your time tidy toys papers books, clutter, laundry, making beds, picking up clothes, taking out rubbish. However, this is not cleaning. What bout mopping floors, wiping skirting boards, doors, sanitising surfaces?

Being untidy is one thing, but imo there is no excuse for people to live in a dirty house. And, if my house was dirty, I would expect people to be grossed out by it. All this 'take me as you find me' is bollocks. Clean your house I say.

I feel like that too Sunshine - I never seem to stop tidying yet it's still quite often untidy. And my house is massive so storage and space is no problem - we just have an awful lot of stuff! I think lack of stuff is the key to tidiness and ease of organisation. The problem most horrendously untidy/dirty householders have is a feeling of overwhelming despondency at knowing where to start - because there is so much stuff everywhere that there is never a 'system' in place for where things should logically belong. And when there is chaos it's hard to clean properly.

There may be a wardrobe, but it might be full of shit that no-one needs or uses, so all the clean clothes get dumped on the floor and end up getting muddled up with the dirty clothes, and so it goes on. I think it's not so much laziness always, as a lack of ability to focus, concentrate, and see a job through to the end. I know I have these traits myself and I have to constantly work to overcome them or my life would be total chaos. But I am a champion de-clutterer. I am always re-organising cupboards and throwing stuff out. Being mentally able to throw stuff out is the key to an organised home.

I think children growing up in more organised houses - by this I mean mess that can be tidied up in each room in 5 min at the end of the day are calmer. I often let my house get quite messy but then I spend a couple of hours sorting it again and I always feel much less stressed. Everything takes longer/more effort in a messy house - children doing homework need to FIND pencils etc, then clear a space at table, wipe jam off table, go look for a rubber etc. Same with meals - not so tempting to cook a healthy meal in a messy kitchen - not as much surface area for prep etc.

Oh Sorry Dr Northerner - what do you do with the clutter then, kick it to one side so you can mop the floor??

FellatioNelson - you have just described me to a tee! ITs the fecking STUFF!! Please come to my house and declutter for me :-)

that's true giraffes - my girls get really upset if their drawings left lying about in the kitchen get food on them. A house needs to be safe and functional - you need to be able to find things when you need them. Even with toys, there's not much point in spending money on nice toys if they are just going to get lost or broken.

Don't have so much clutter. Then you can mop floors without moving a mountain of crap first.

If you can't get to your floors it's time to declutter me thinks.

Fellation - I think you have hit the nail on the head there - you do need a system, a place for everything, and discipline. Plus, you need to commit time to making your environment nice, if you want a nice environment!

We spend probably two or say full days a year just decluttering and taking stuff to charity shops/the dump. I spend hours tidying. I get the children to clean up after themselves, but I still have to commit an hour or more a day to just putting things back where they belong (and in my head, and in DH's head to an extent, everything has a place). Then, there is the cleaning. On top of bathroom cleaning etc, I clean as soon as I see something dirty (the odd smudge on a window, handprint on a wall). It often means that my time seems to vanish before my eyes - but it is because I am doing little jobs along the way and rarely have hours in front of the TV like many people. Despite all that, we have three children and the house is still actually not that tidy or clean - so I can imagine for people who commit no time to their houses, they would soon spiral out of control.

I try not to judge others for the state of their houses, but I do think some people expect their houses to be clean and tidy without putting any effort in.

Fellatio not Fellation! I think it also helps to have been brought up with some sort of structure - it is easier to mimic.

Had to laugh my sister's house is like this and possibly worse - on the other hand I'm ridiculously obsessed with clean and tidy house (I can't relax until everything is in its place). Lord knows how we both ended up on such opposite ends of the spectrum. Funnily enough (well not ha ha funny but more urgh funny!) we are both uncomfortable in each others houses - although we love it each other to bits. She worries constantly about messing my place up and I spend the whole time trying not to tidy hers up - usually this ends in hysterics because we both know what the other is thinking.
However her house is full to bursting with love - there are always people coming and going, and the kettle always on. She has 4 teenage daughters (this probably goes a long way to why its like this but then to be honest it always has been even pre kids!) and her house is the one all the friends hang out at and are comfortable in. And she is the first person anyone in her community turns to if they have a problem.
I'm sure some of them have taken a gasp of horror (or even two!) when they first see it but I honestly think most people then see past it to who she and her family really are.

I have been on both ends of the spectrum. Not quite right at both ends but almost.

I lived in mess and near chaos for years and it really did affect my mental health. I am not naturally tidy but really need a tidy environment to be at my best.

I had to get rid of lots of stuff. Let go of things. I found the sense of relief really suprising. Once you know its gone and you cant get it back (not put away somewhere 'just in case') its very freeing.

A few things happened in a short period that pushed me to the 'other side'. My DS came to me on an emergency family foster placement. I had SW coming out of my ears so constantly kept the house clean and tidy. Then it became apparent that he had severe allergies which made it properly important to keep it clean. Then my lovely girl got cancer and the chemo wiped out her immune system. All this time I had social workers, nurses, OTs. physios, home tutors etc in and out of my house.

I went utterly mental. I used to get up every morning and clean the whole house. I would do a spring clean every single day. Under beds, behind sofas, windows the lot. It was my way of controling the situation.
It didnt work of course. DD still died. Infection usually comes from inside not outside in these cases.

Anyhow. It did teach me how to clean, how to have a house that was cleanable, you cant have a tidy house if there is nowhere to put things and you cannot every have a tidy house if you have piles of things waiting to be put away.

Buying lots of storage doesnt work. If you have to buy lots of storage you have too much stuff.

I love stuff. I love shabby chic and Lovely Things. But you have to have somewhere to put something or you will live in mess.
You have to do some cleaning every day.
Concentrate on clean and tidy will follow.

Sorry this post is not very ordered because I have boys all over the place doing their best to distract me!

I dont judge people who live in mess because I understand how easy it is to get to that point. I DO feel sorry that they are living like that because I also know how much better it is to live with some order in your life. I want them to be happier IYSWIM.

I dont mean that in a patronizing way although I am sure it comes across as such. You will just have to take my word for it

MrsDeVere - im so very sorry to hear about your daughter, i don't know what to say. It is very humbling actually, your post is. I suffer from anxiety that is made worse by the mess and when i get round to doing it i think, ah fuck this, why am i going to do it, our finances will get even worse, we'll lose the house and so whats the point. Reading your post, i need to get over myself because i am much happier in a tidy home, so if i am, my DP must be and my DD will be. I wouldnt mind but most of our "stuff" is rubbish but its rubbish that i feel to guilty to throw away. Trouble is, its a vicious circle - DP has no respect for the house, front garden full of rubbish from other peoples jobs (get this, he's a builder - our house is practically falling apart) tools everywhere, wood everywhere etc etc. I cant help but thinking if i kept the place nicer he would respect it more, but then it seems no sooner i declutter a surface someone will clutter it double quick time. I dont know where to start - i do one room, im quite good at doing one room and making it pristine but it simply involves removing stuff from that room to another which makes the other room even worse than it already was and the cycle continues - sometimes i wish i could just skip everything i honestly do.

There you are, i think, because i do struggle with the stuff and i do feel negative about it, knowing that there are people out there who would judge me for it does upset me. I have a friend who i wont invite to my house because hers is lovely and i KNOW she will judge me and gossip about my house - im not sure if that says more about her or me. I have another friend who is practically OCD like about cleaning and tidy, but she is very open and says bugger me sunshine, i coudlnt live in yoru house - but she isn't judging just saying that it would drive her scatty.

Ive done the storage boxes, but they get full up with shit and left so the day to day shite is out on the dining table etc and just gets shoved to one side at meal times.

The only room in the house that is tidy and lovely is DDs bedroom but boy can she mess that up.

I am feeling anxious today but have done some cleaning and put washing out. the downstairs looks reasonable. it defintely helps me to cope.

I'm naturally messy, and have a high level of acceptance for how others live (whether they're clean freaks or stig of the dump types) but I do have one friend I just can't visit as I leave feeling sticky and feel pretty nauseous from the second I cross the foot hold, plus, on leaving, my clothes STINK of her 'stuff, skin and slop' .... its not JUST messy, its a health hazzard.

A small washing up pile I can cope with, an unhoovered carpet, fine... BUT there comes a point where messy becomes squalor, and once that point is reached, I won't visit for coffee. Seriously, my mates coffee cups are sticky and they SMELL of spit. Yuk.

Her kids smell too, and I find that very sad. I have offered to clean her house (when she was ill, thought it was a good opportunity to cause least offence) and she's also had social services involved (that scared her enough to enlist us friends to blitz the house, it was back to the same a few weeks later)... its really hard not to get your judgey pants on sometimes, and our friendship has suffered, but not as much as her kids have at school.

Try Flylady.com if you're naturally messy and have a massive mountain to climb... I used it and it was actually quite helpful, even though I didn't follow it to the letter.

If you had to move yourselves into a furnished holiday cottage with just a suitcase full of basic possessions, and no unnecessary clutter you would manage to keep it nice so much more easily but over time you clutter it up again, which is natural. But it is is so liberating to realise how little you actually need to live with to get by and function perfectly well. I bet most people who struggle with tidiness and organisation could easily halve the contents of every cupboard in their house and not miss anything.

The other thing is that if you cannot easily lay your hands to things you need (bills, important letters from school, clean pants, a complete pair of shoes etc etc) life becomes very very stressful and just functioning properly as a competent adult becomes a challenge. I cannot strees enough how throwing stuff away is the answer! Do boot fairs, get Ebaying, hire a skip, go to the charity clothes bank, have a bonfire - anything, just do it. It's like lifting the millstone from your neck I promise. I'm sure lots of people could cure depressive episodes by cleansing their physical surroundings like this.

Can I also say, about throwing stuff away or giving it to charity, that in all the stuff we have got rid of I can honestly say that we have only missed one or two things that would have cost about a fiver to replace. Some people end up having huge houses and mortgages to store stuff that they could buy from new again for pounds!

i think the flylady would have a nervous breakdown if she saw my house - i am going to do it, take the roof off, turn the house upside down and get rid of everything i dont actually NEED - metaphorically of course :)

valiumredhead you are welcome around for a cuppa and a slice of cake any time!

Jolly good!

Our house is a horrible mess - not dirty, but clutter everywhere. I find it really depressing tbh and am ashamed to let people in when it's at its worst. I do keep trying to sort it out but am overwhelmed by the enormity of it all. Don't know where to start. :(

In my defence, I do work FT in a stressful job and DH is always busy too. Spend a lot of my free time doing stuff with dd and there never seems to be enough time left to sort out the house. I know it would take less time if we kept on top of it regularly, but I just don't know how to get to that place.

I grew up in a messy, cluttered house and I really don't want the same for dd. I know we probably have too much stuff, but find it hard to let go of things - even to know what I should let go of. I think the biggest problem is motivation tbh - I find it very difficult to believe that I'll ever get on top of stuff, and so maybe I just don't put in enough effort.

I'm not surprised that people judge others for this sort of thing. Living in my mess would be unimaginable for some, and I can see why they'd wonder how it had ever been allowed to get that way. Honestly speaking, I wish I knew myself. :(

sunshine and others that are beating themselves up - dont.

I know that feeling of 'whats the point?'. There is so much to do so why do anything at all?

But doing something small makes a huge difference!. That there FLY lady may be totally menkle but she speaks a lot of sense under all that nonsense.

She does that shiney sink thing. Get up NOW and clean your sink. It will look lovely even if the rest of the kitchen doesnt and you are less likely to throw crap in it because it looks so nice.

It is so true that mess attracts mess. I find if I am sloppy everyone else in the house joins in. No its not fair and I dont think the house work is my job as a woman. OH does quite a bit but he has MS and get very tired. My kids have always been expected to tidy up after themselves and I wont have them dump stuff everywhere.

I find the best way to get started is to give myself a time limit. If you have a mountain of mess just get started. Say you are going to have a go for an hour exactly. Get as much done as you can in that hour.

Even if you only did that one thing every day your house WILL get better. Logically it has to.

Dont take on everyone else's rubbish. If they know you hang on to things they will dump stuff on you so they dont have to face ridding it themselves.

My attitude to cleaning and housework is not what I would call healthy tbh. But I do know a lot about it .

You really dont have to be a 'natural' to have a tidy home. I think those of us who are naturally messy end up being uber organised to compensate.

Maybe you should tackle one room at a time. Anything that doesn't belong in there just put in the relevant room, even if it's just slung in a washing basket or something, and deal with it later, but chuck it if you don't need to keep it. Give the tidied room a really thorough spring clean, pull out furniture, vaccum the corners of the ceilings, wash painttwork etc. Then focus on keeping that one room clean and tidy by doing a five minute a day tidy around and a once a week quick clean, vaccuum etc. It might take two days or more per room, but it will be worth it.

Then the following week, move onto the next room doing the same. And make sure you leave yourself enough time each day to do a quick check over of that room too. And so on, and so on. It might take a couple of months to get round the whole house, depending how big it is, but so long as you don't move the crap out of a chaotic room and dump it in a tidied room, it will all come good in the end!

If you can stretch to a cleaner for a couple of hours a week it will give you an incentive to keep the kitchen and bathroom decent so she can actually get in it to clean it, and you can ask her to just keep on top of the cleaning in the rooms you've sorted, so it will free up time for you to get on with your de-cluttering. I know cleaners cost money but even if you can just spare £20 a week for a couple of months to help you get back on track it's a good investment. And stop spending that 20 quid on all the other bits of toot that you don't really need that is cluttering up your house!

Although we are quite an untidy family I find having a cleaner on a fixed day helps me keep to a routine of tidying, stripping beds etc. I can't bear her to go in and do a room until it's completely clear of junk and clutter, cups and glasses returned to the kitchen, clothes and towels off the floor, beds made, magazines stacked or chucked, etc. I have to have all surfaces clear and neat so she can dust. I have loads of washing baskets that I pile everyone's belongings in that have been left around the house all week, and then I take them to the relevant room for sorting out and putting away. OK, so some weeks the baskets don't even get emptied, but the point is it's not spread all over the floor!