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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to have had an abortion and feel ZERO shame or regret

1000 replies

GetOrfMoiCase · 26/05/2011 13:00

In AIBU because it is a popular topic. I know I am not being unreasonable.

Thread is in response to a report I heard on the news yesterday which was shamefully presented, regarding abortion access.

There is a thread on MN currently about it www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1222273-Chipping-away-at-abortion-rights-govt-appoints-Life-as-sexual-health-adviser

Apparently there is a twitter thingummy going around 'I had an abortion' for people to discuss guilt free abortions.

Just thought it would be appropriate to have a thread on here for people put a positive side of abortion.

My story: got pregnant 5 years ago. My dd was 10. I was in a relationship of 6 months duration and had recently started a new job. Condom failure. My partner and I agreed that we didn't want a baby, I booked an abortion and had it without a backward glance. No emotional fall out afterwards. No guilt.

OP posts:

queenmarythegreat · 28/05/2011 14:09

"Yes, a midwife with these views is worrying - especially for women terminating for reasons of disability"

No. What is worrying is the astonishing degree of ignorance here.
Everyone is entitled to act according to their conscience.
This entitlement is enshrined in law.
On the very rare occasion that an abortion is carried out on LW, As a midwife I can, and do, opt not to have any active part in it.
That is my right.
And yes, of course I am very upfront with my colleagues about it. It is not like being a paedophile or an anti semite.
I am entitled to act according to my conscience, and I believe that it is wrong to assist in the taking of any innocent life. Accordingly, i have nothing to do with abortion.
I am shocked at the level of resistance to that idea.

SardineQueen · 28/05/2011 14:10

Just seen this.

I also wouldn't want QueenMary caring for me while I was giving birth.

Her stance clearly shows that to her the life of a feotus is more important than the life of the woman carrying it, and I would be concerned what sort of decisions that might lead her to make if things started to go badly with the birth.

Anyone who says that abortion is wrong in all circumstances is basically a heartless person who sees pregnant women as nothing more than incubators. I read stories (I'm sure we all do) of very young girls being denied abortions in the most horrendous of circumstances. Anyone who puts the life of an embryo or foetus above the life of a child or adult has their priorities messed up, frankly.

SardineQueen · 28/05/2011 14:12

Whether or not you are involved in abortion, your views about the value of the life of a foetus in relation to the life of the female carrying it, means that your judgement might be clouded in certain circumstances.

queenmarythegreat · 28/05/2011 14:13

"i'm also be dubious of having someone so utterly deranged managing my birth frankly.

and completely without compassion."

Really?
How would you know anything about my compassion? I lack compassion because I disagree with YOU?
And deranged how exactly?
Apart from the fact I disagree with you that is.
Or is that it?

SardineQueen · 28/05/2011 14:15

You lack compassion because you disagree with abortion in all circumstances.

That includes a range of absolutely terrible situations, which I'm sure I don't need to start listing here. It is not a compassionate stance, it is an absolute stance that puts the life of a foetus above the life of the woman or girl who is carrying it.

swallowedAfly · 28/05/2011 14:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

queenmarythegreat · 28/05/2011 14:15

Where have I said the life of a fetus is worth more than a woman?
I'll go and put the kettle on and have a cup of tea while I'm waiting.
And then I'll take the children for a walk, and then I'll wait for hell to freeze over before I get a sensible answer.

swallowedAfly · 28/05/2011 14:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

queenmarythegreat · 28/05/2011 14:20

Abortion is wrong because it';s a baby, and it is always wrong to intentionally kill a baby.
I am just being consistent and you are not.

Sometimes already born people can become disabled.
Jobs can be lost
Partners bolt leaving women to pick up the slack.
Life is full of difficulty.
So can we kill born people too?

SardineQueen · 28/05/2011 14:20

Are you in the UK? You spell foetus with the american spelling.

Anyone who says they disagree with abortion in all circumstances is actually saying that they value the life of the foetus above the life of the female carrying it. It's self evident.

queenmarythegreat · 28/05/2011 14:21

"does a loon howling on a thread make a sound if no one is listening?"

Sorry?
I can't hear you.

wowwowwubbzywubbzywubbzywowwow · 28/05/2011 14:21

So you don't counsel women in your care? So if a woman comes for an appointment who has had the devastating news that her child's condition is not compatable with life you say what? Nothing? Is midwifery not supposed to be a caring proffession?

You say that the law cannot legislate for people's views so are you saying that you would ACT in opposition to your views? The basic premise of the pro-life argument is that the life of the foetus should come BEFORE the life of the mother. That is why suicidal women/women whose lives are in danger due to the pregnancy should not have an abortion according to the pro-life movement. So would you ACT according to your view that the life of the foetus takes priority or would you ACT within the law and prioritise the life of the mother? I would not be convinced that a pro-life midwife would act against her views hence why I would change midwife if I knew about them.

Primalscream · 28/05/2011 14:21

QueenMary - I'm far from ignorant, but I obviously am when it comes to the world of midwifery. I didn't know you could opt out of certain procedures on moral/ethical grounds. If you can, then you're right to do so.
I just had visions of you sneering at the poor woman as you're dealing with her.

SardineQueen · 28/05/2011 14:24

Sometimes carrying a baby to term will kill the woman carrying it.
Sometimes giving birth to a baby will kill the woman carrying it.
Sometimes being forced to carry a baby to term will cause enormous psychological trauma with a strong likelihood of severe lasting effects or suicide.
Sometimes being forced to carry a baby to term will result in the female carrying it being ostracised or killed.
Sometimes being forced to carry a baby to term will result in a child being ejected from her family.
The list goes on and on and on.

Anyone who thinks that abortion is wrong in all circumstances clearly cares more for the life of the foetus than the female carrying it, and would be a potentially dangerous person to have around birthing women.

queenmarythegreat · 28/05/2011 14:24

"Are you in the UK? You spell foetus with the american spelling."

It is not the American spelling. Foetus/fetus is a latin word and there has been some disagreement about whether correct latin uses the "oe" or not.
It was agreed upon, a long time ago to standardise the spelling.
"Fetus" is the correct spelling and is the standard spelling in obstetrics.

queenmarythegreat · 28/05/2011 14:26

"I just had visions of you sneering at the poor woman as you're dealing with her."

Sneering?
Oh for goodness sake. Why does my opposition to abortion make me someone who sneers?

wowwowwubbzywubbzywubbzywowwow · 28/05/2011 14:30

Oh having read your subsequent post I assume you wouldn't act against your views if the safe delivery of a baby was going to endanger the mothers life - you'd just get off and let someone else deal with it. Does the conscience clause still apply if there's no-one else to do the parts of your job that you don't want to do?

Primalscream · 28/05/2011 14:31

I just think women who are going through this procedure need supportive people around them - I would abort for reasons of disability without a 2nd thought - but I'd still like to have nursing staff around me who were kind and understanding - it helps you know.
And your attitude would be hard to disguise I think - I'm sure I'd pick up on it - and probably cry.

queenmarythegreat · 28/05/2011 14:36

"Does the conscience clause still apply if there's no-one else to do the parts of your job that you don't want to do?"

What sort of scenario are you positing?

SardineQueen · 28/05/2011 14:37

You'd do more than cry if problems happened during the delivery and the pro-life midwife had to decide between things which would improve survival chances for the mother or for the baby.

Forget crying, you might well die.

SardineQueen · 28/05/2011 14:38

But that would be OK, as the baby would be alive. Without a mother, obviously. But that's OK, just a little collateral damage.

differentnameforthis · 28/05/2011 14:45

queenmarythegreat

if you read my posts, you will see that I pointed out that I am in Australia & only just caught the thread, so was picking out bits & pieces to comment on.

Is that ok? Or do you wish to silence me on that too?

differentnameforthis · 28/05/2011 14:47

ebbandflow No hard feelings eh?

michelleseashell · 28/05/2011 14:54

Queenmary- You're just a bit of a bull in a china shop. And I wouldn't want a bull at my birth

ebbandflow · 28/05/2011 15:17

differentnameforthis I expressed myself really badly didn't I, I made it sound like do it, but keep it secret? I certainly don't think that way nor feel that any one should be ashamed. It is a really difficult subject to talk about isn't it?

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