to think that too many people rely on the Tax Credits for their income.

[IdRatherBeInBed]

Bit of background first

My sister and her boyfriend has got back together after they split up last year. She was then claiming income support.

He has moved back in with her so her benefits have all stopped. she works 13.5 hours a week, he works over 30 hours. They earn £17k between them. Which lets be honest in this climate is not alot of money.

Shes just called Tax Credits to let them know hes moved back in and wanted to know what she would be entitled to WTC wise. Due to her HB/CTB stopping. Her rent is £500 per month, CT £100 per month. She is entitled to £4.90 per week.

I am sad for her because after all rent, ct, bills have gone out shes isnt left with anything. her food bill for the month has had to be cut to £200 per month. She has a car on finance (through my dad) which is shagging her tbh due to engine size (she got it when still with partner before splitting up and he had to get a 1.8 sport^^) her insurance with just her on it is £115p/m. - (she isnt 25 yet)

Anyway she called them last week to ask how much she could be entitled to, they told her £80 per week so she was like
"ooh we can afford this, we can afford that" so went out and spent £100 on clothes for her, him and nephew. I told her not to rely on what they have said because it could be wrong but she wouldn't listen and was saying 'it will be right'. Today she rings me bollocking me as to why she is only entitled to £4.90 per week.

FFS why bollock me - i dont work for them.

WIHBU to have said to her 'cancel your £24p/m gym membership, get rid of the car or change it if you can, stop getting things from catalogues that you cant pay for and get your arse of a boyfriend to stop spending money you don't have on shit like £5.50 magazines each week, stop getting shit for the garden you dont need, you don't need so many fucking flowery things to make a garden look nice.

Or what i come across as a complete and utter bitch.

She is one of these who says "oh i have no money" but yet has enough for new clothes or go out for a meal, or takeaway"

To Coco - I suspect the answer is panic.

What, from the list above, would you cut? Heating, petrol, food?

I had the wife of an ex-employee in my office the other day, crying. He left us because he got a job offer that reduced his travel costs and it was money they needed not to be paying. Now that job has had it's hours reduced, they've three teen kids, one of whom needs full time care, so she can't work, and they simply aren't covering their bills and they've no car, btw, they solely rely on public transport. ALREADY, they're at the point where, sometimes, the adults don't eat.

It's nice to say 'don't rely on it, cause if they take it away....' BUT how can they NOT rely on it??

She was, btw, here to see if we had any work we could throw their way - purely because she hates being reliant on state hand outs.

I wish I could have helped her, but we've shed three jobs this month.

'We would have been homeless if it was left to them.'

So who looked after your child for free whilst you went to work?

Cocoflower, you haven't told us how not to rely on TCs though - I don't understand what you propose doing instead?

'My ex nearly left dc and I homeless when he walked out. I couldnt afford nappies or milk.'

So what did you do, wrap a towel round her and starve?

Coco None of that comes across in your posts, not at all.

You're saying you are ok to rely on your church to help, but others shouldn't rely on TC.

Surely the point is, if you haven't got enough money coming in you have to rely on somebody. For many, that somebody is TC.

The ideal is if you can get by without any help, then you can choose to rely on nobody, but lots of people aren't that lucky.

"Have you never met people in poverty? They go into debt, they stop eating meals so their children can eat, they have shoes that leak in the winter, they don't have the heating on in winter even though their children are freezing. What do you think they do? And they are the lucky ones with a home, some lose their homes and the family is split up and they go into hostels."

Actually this rings true for other segments of society, which I think is a good thing to point out - it's not just parents with kids.

Pensioners living on the breadline go to similar lengths. I remember many years ago watching a terribly heartbreaking moment with a neighbour who popped in to say hello to my mum (she didn't know i was there), a fiercely proud woman who's basically been a carer her entire life (first for her children, then her adult son with learning difficulties, and then for her husband before he died) - she was quite upset that the cheap beans had gone up 2p at the local shop, to the point where she was almost crying. i hadn't realised until that moment the sheer level of poverty that some people in this country, through no fault of their own live in.

it's a world i wish more politicians and people in power were exposed to.

if Ctc go then im on the swanny becuase not sure how we would live on £54 a week carers ,20 IS a week and child benefit of £60 a week so £134 and

before you all start yellin g about free school dinners well none of mine get as they all have serious food allergies .Hb yes I get some but I still have to top mine up and no can not move anywhere cheaper , where else can I find a landlord that will rent to Sp oh and suitable for 2 wheelchair users .

£134 out of that I would need to pay pay £40 a week rent ,2o a week Eletric and put aside £20 a week towards filling p my oil tank and then pay £10 a week water .leaving me at the most £44 a week for food for 5 and then got to think of clothes,shoes those school trips !! times 3 soon adds up .and yes I would always need internet no shops here so i bank and food shop online

Mind if they wish to pay me a decent carers wage then maybe i may be able to survive , key is survive not live

Are you trying to funny expat?

'Are you trying to funny expat?'

Um, no, I'm asking genuine questions.

Tax credits should be abolished and the income tax threshold should be raised instead, allow people to keep more of their wages instead of being taxed and being given the money back, its a far fairer system.

we have been MADE to rely on them. No way can a family survive on one wage alone...and even with two wages its a struggle.

It also pisses me off that people who genuinely work and work hard to support themselves are criticised for treating themselves to a takeaway or a new outfit. Yeah there is going overboard and living beyond your means then you only have yourself to blame but to me it doesn't sound like your sister goes mad.? She is just enjuoying what she has worked damned hard for.

I am fed up of working all the time and not being able to take my kids out for the day. One day out can cost close to £100 if you include fuel etc and before anyone starts i am en expert at free days out and picnics but sometimes its nice to take your kids to a theme park or wherever.

Even with tax credits we struggle...and yes i do rely on them with my family even though my husband works 40 hours a week and i work 12. I could work full time i guess but i don't want to. I chose to be a mum and i want to be here for them. When they have grown and gone THEN i will work full time...till that time comes i will be here for them and we will RELY on tax credits i'm afraid.

The days of living on one wage are long gone...

Skynews because thats our old life- the dark days.

Plently of people have been through dark days and had to build themselves up again. Plenty.

But they never forget those days.

I think Expat is trying to highlight that you had to have help from someone, in your case the church (if I read your post correctly).

Pah, it's just another stick to beat the poor with really, isn't it?

Still, the times they are a-changing as people who were previously ok financially start the slide into a poorer (and not only financially) quality of life, there might finally start to be some empathy for those who have lived on the breadline for years.

And the other thing is of course we coulnt rely on the church- that would be ridiculous. It was up to us to get ourselves out of that mess wasnt it?

I'll ask again cocoflower, HOW do we not rely on TCs? If it's possible then I'd like to know.

Coco You sound like you have forgotten.

I understand if you are saying that some people treat TC as free money and they buy an iphone, get sky tv, spend on a credit card thinking it'll be ok cos TC will pay for them and then they are saddled with all the extra expenses that come with those things and would be stuck without the TC (which could be taken away).

BUT if you are saying no one, however poor, should rely on them then you have no idea about the reality of being poor, or have forgotten.

Not the first time we fell into hard times. I started teacher training to secure a more stable life for myself and DC

So how did you manage to do that coco? Was it through getting TC's? (which although you're now paying back meant that you didn't all starve to death on the street)

'It was up to us to get ourselves out of that mess wasnt it?'

And so that is why people are asking, including myself, how did you do it, if you took no money from TC (and therefore no one else should)? Who looked after your child for free whilst you worked, and did you conjure nappies and milk out of thin air without help from anyone when you couldn't afford them?

I dont think I have forgotten.

I think its sad for some people they rely on them.

But I still and always will think its a gamble; a risk.

'Still, the times they are a-changing as people who were previously ok financially start the slide into a poorer (and not only financially) quality of life, there might finally start to be some empathy for those who have lived on the breadline for years.'

Interest rates will have to rise. Which means people with lots of debt and who need to re-mortgage will be facing hard or harder times.

So you did teacher training and paid for childcare without any government help?