to think that too many people rely on the Tax Credits for their income.

[IdRatherBeInBed]

Bit of background first

My sister and her boyfriend has got back together after they split up last year. She was then claiming income support.

He has moved back in with her so her benefits have all stopped. she works 13.5 hours a week, he works over 30 hours. They earn £17k between them. Which lets be honest in this climate is not alot of money.

Shes just called Tax Credits to let them know hes moved back in and wanted to know what she would be entitled to WTC wise. Due to her HB/CTB stopping. Her rent is £500 per month, CT £100 per month. She is entitled to £4.90 per week.

I am sad for her because after all rent, ct, bills have gone out shes isnt left with anything. her food bill for the month has had to be cut to £200 per month. She has a car on finance (through my dad) which is shagging her tbh due to engine size (she got it when still with partner before splitting up and he had to get a 1.8 sport^^) her insurance with just her on it is £115p/m. - (she isnt 25 yet)

Anyway she called them last week to ask how much she could be entitled to, they told her £80 per week so she was like
"ooh we can afford this, we can afford that" so went out and spent £100 on clothes for her, him and nephew. I told her not to rely on what they have said because it could be wrong but she wouldn't listen and was saying 'it will be right'. Today she rings me bollocking me as to why she is only entitled to £4.90 per week.

FFS why bollock me - i dont work for them.

WIHBU to have said to her 'cancel your £24p/m gym membership, get rid of the car or change it if you can, stop getting things from catalogues that you cant pay for and get your arse of a boyfriend to stop spending money you don't have on shit like £5.50 magazines each week, stop getting shit for the garden you dont need, you don't need so many fucking flowery things to make a garden look nice.

Or what i come across as a complete and utter bitch.

She is one of these who says "oh i have no money" but yet has enough for new clothes or go out for a meal, or takeaway"

We couldn't choose not to rely on TCs - it's not paying for extras, it's paying for basics.

"Your telling me I dont 'get it' because we choose not to rely on something"

Cocoflower, I'm telling you you don't get it because the element of importance here is choice.

You can choose to put your tax credits into a bank account in case they ever demand them back. My sister has no other choice than to spend her credits on food for the family.

CHOICE.

The rich man's friend; not so for the poorer folk here.

Fair enough Sonnet I see your point. I don't know anyone who does that, thorugh choice, but I accpet that people might.

From what we were told when DH was looking for work we'd be far worse off if he worked p/t. The TC would not make up the shortfall in his wage.

TC are there for people who needs them, 17k a year seems so much to me- but different circumstances maybe she has higher rent/mortgage to pay. Me and DH bring back a year including TC just under 14k a year. He works 37hours a week min. wage and im expecting no.2 and need to be a SAHM as we can not afford childcare (the money we'd get for it wouldn't cover enough) rent and CT is just under £600 p/m , we are struggling!!

No, you don't "get it" If a person is on NMW and is a lone parent with 2 children in childcare it is literally impossible to EAT without TC. Why do you not get this?

I'm already paying back an overpayment actually - so... I still don't see your point?

Do you get TC paid into a savings account now then? And not touch it until the following year? I am presuming you are on a higher wage than me (I'm not on NMW)

Tax credits are a just the Government bribing people with their own money. The Government taxes people and then in their infinite generiosity gives you some money. They are terrible idea designed purely to secure votes for the Labour Party, the Coalition seems to have the right idea by pursuing the Lib Dem policy of raising the income tax threshold.

The thing is Shirleyknot that is who tax credits should be for (although NMW should increase ) BUT the net is too wide. Although dooinmecleanin disagreees with me that people can choose to receive tax credits or not

'TC are there for people who needs them, 17k a year seems so much to me- but different circumstances maybe she has higher rent/mortgage to pay. '

If that's a gross figure, then they're getting about what you do after taxes and NI.

This is very little money for a family.

Actually, right, Cocoflower, tell me how you would choose to make a better of this situation.

Your husband earns £780 after tax for a 40hr week.
You earn 3 days minimum wage during the evenings, varied wages of about £220 a month. Can't get more due to childcare costs not being covered - you'd end up with less each month.

So the household earns itself about £1000.

You also live in a relatively crappy house with damp problems, no parking, and 1 less bedroom than ideal (your two kids share 1 room with bunk beds). For this you pay £580 - £600 a month.

Tell me, how can your husband afford his petrol commuting money, council tax, school trips, school uniforms, gas, electric, water rates on £100 per week? Not forgetting that you also have to pay for food to eat. Oh, and maybe you also might afford to have a repair or two around the home. Maybe you want a haircut or a TV license at some point in the future?

The figures don't add up, Coco.

Tell me, what is your choice in that situation?

Sigh...

So if you this year they turn around and tell you your only going to get £20 per month may I ask you what you would do?

doinmecleanin - sorry for last comment didn't see last post! Can't keep up as mulittasking
If I gave up work and din;t have all my childcare costs then our disposabel income on tax credits would be slightly lower than it is now - I would trade the lower cash for a less stressful life :)
As it is I have no new clothes or gym membership whilst working 40 hrs a week

'What are you going to do this year if you end up like us and they demand £3000 from you?'

Sell our house and live in a box, Coco. It's all we could do. We need the TC to pay the mortgage. We cannot get a mortgage without counting them as income. We don't earn enough. We cannot pay private rent without using the TC, we don't earn enough. There are no council houses.

In reality that would never happen to us. Because our income is so low we must (according to the government, poverty line and all that) receive a certain amount in state help. If we were over paid they'd only be able to take it back in installments, so as not to put us below the magical poverty line.

We are fortunate in that our mortgage is very low and DH is disabled (that's not fortunate obv) so we get the disability element of WTC. We do have a bit left over to use a buffer, if we need it. If they took £3k in one year though, we'd lose the house.

Cocoflower, that's where the local loan sharks or credit cards come in.

The situation I've described isn't my own, but a family member's. She's not daft enough to go looking for debt if she still has any pennies coming in to cover it, but you wouldn't believe the amount of that crap that goes on where I'm from. We're talking poverty levels like politicians haven't even seen. Nevermind legislated for.

And that's all in a working family! Where there are 2 able bodied adults, and no children with special needs!

You tell me coco...

Because I'm not actually talking about myself here - as I said further upthread I am fortunate enough not to be in the situation of earning NMW and having to pay rent/utilities/food out of that plus TC.

We chose never to rely on TC, good job because we lost them recently.

The difference is that by 'chose' I mean we didn't buy a new car, we didn't get a more expensive house, we didn't join a gym, we don't buy lots of new clothes or expensive brands, I don't shop as Asda when I can only really afford Aldi.

Thankfully though, I was in a position where we could choose to live more frugally on our basic income rather than considering the TC as part of our income, TC were an extra. Lots don't have that luxury of choice though and TC make the difference between eating and not - no choice there.

Oh yes, I forgot - remember that as one of these working poor, the things that you or I take for granted aren't available as often.

A direct debt is cheaper than a pre-pay gas meter.
You can't bulk buy on good food deals at the supermarket.
You can't afford buy 3 get 3rd free offers.
You can't afford a bigger freezer (or replace a broken one) to store up for rainy days.
You can't immediately afford the 3 month pre-pay prescription if you need medicine.
Dentist? What's that? Not in the budget.

Can't you see how the lack of a LIVING wage has forced people to come to this? Where they rely on tax credits just to live?

Tax credits are a scheme devised by Gordon Brown to buy votes and need to be done away with as soon as possible. The system is so badly designed that the marginal rates on people who wish to increase their working hours is around 90%, IDS seems to be doing something about this however with this new universal credit scheme.

Sell our house and live in a box, Coco.

But this is the essence of my point. Im not saying "oh you shouldnt get them" im saying WE personally do not want to be at that risk.

For what its worth when my ex walked out on me and my one year old daughter and left me with a £700 rent to pay on my own the Housing benefit office wouldnt pay enough to cover the rent or get us alternative accomadation.

We would have been homeless if it was left to them.

So you can see my trust to rely on the goverment is at zero.

Coco "So if you this year they turn around and tell you your only going to get £20 per month may I ask you what you would do?"

Have you never met people in poverty? They go into debt, they stop eating meals so their children can eat, they have shoes that leak in the winter, they don't have the heating on in winter even though their children are freezing. What do you think they do? And they are the lucky ones with a home, some lose their homes and the family is split up and they go into hostels.

You sound like you have no idea of the reality of life for some people.

SkyNewsAddict, hear hear.

I'd be FUCKED Coco, but I don't have a CHOICE.

Unless you can tell me what to cut? Food, electric, rent, childcare, council tax?

"Sigh...

So if you this year they turn around and tell you your only going to get £20 per month may I ask you what you would do?"

Same as what anyone would do I guess? Panic, get into debt, sell a kidney?! after all my husband and I both lost our jobs last year. Silly us were dependent on our wages and had spent them on food and other essentials. Honestly, what were we thinking?

Coco I don't think the people relying on TC trust the government, but that doesn't mean that they don't still have to rely on the money. . They know full well that they will be fucked without it.

Then there are people like my family, TC makes it easier, but we are OK without them.

Bollocks skynews.

We only get £20.Thats my POINT. We are in debt to them.

We nearly lost our home when we both lost our income for 6 months. We relied on the CHURCH to feed us.

My ex nearly left dc and I homeless when he walked out. I couldnt afford nappies or milk.

The goverment did nothing for us. So dont tell me I have no idea.