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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that too many people rely on the Tax Credits for their income.

593 replies

IdRatherBeInBed · 19/05/2011 11:42

Bit of background first

My sister and her boyfriend has got back together after they split up last year. She was then claiming income support.

He has moved back in with her so her benefits have all stopped. she works 13.5 hours a week, he works over 30 hours. They earn £17k between them. Which lets be honest in this climate is not alot of money.

Shes just called Tax Credits to let them know hes moved back in and wanted to know what she would be entitled to WTC wise. Due to her HB/CTB stopping. Her rent is £500 per month, CT £100 per month. She is entitled to £4.90 per week.

I am sad for her because after all rent, ct, bills have gone out shes isnt left with anything. her food bill for the month has had to be cut to £200 per month. She has a car on finance (through my dad) which is shagging her tbh due to engine size (she got it when still with partner before splitting up and he had to get a 1.8 sport^^) her insurance with just her on it is £115p/m. Hmm - (she isnt 25 yet)

Anyway she called them last week to ask how much she could be entitled to, they told her £80 per week so she was like
"ooh we can afford this, we can afford that" so went out and spent £100 on clothes for her, him and nephew. I told her not to rely on what they have said because it could be wrong but she wouldn't listen and was saying 'it will be right'. Today she rings me bollocking me as to why she is only entitled to £4.90 per week.

FFS why bollock me - i dont work for them.

WIHBU to have said to her 'cancel your £24p/m gym membership, get rid of the car or change it if you can, stop getting things from catalogues that you cant pay for and get your arse of a boyfriend to stop spending money you don't have on shit like £5.50 magazines each week, stop getting shit for the garden you dont need, you don't need so many fucking flowery things to make a garden look nice.

Or what i come across as a complete and utter bitch.

She is one of these who says "oh i have no money" but yet has enough for new clothes or go out for a meal, or takeaway"

OP posts:
Cocoflower · 19/05/2011 13:16

It was me who said I wouldnt rely on TC for our mortgage.

And you know what, we wouldnt even rely on my income as Im self-employed its far too unpreditable.

Nothing funny about not relying on unpredictable income for your mortage.

ShirleyKnot · 19/05/2011 13:16

(actually working a 40 hour week on NMW works out at around £208.00 / week)

Peachy · 19/05/2011 13:17

What do you rely on that's so reliable?

We ahd a house in a lovely Somerset village, with a mortgage.

DH's illness emant it ahd to be sole to cover the bills etc, many eyars ago, whilst he took a still-employed sabbatical.

Health, marriage, pensions plans, employment, insurance have all proven unreliable in my lifetime and immediate family: what is so magically steady that it could never collapse? Don;t get me wrong- we don't do debt beyond student finance and took the mortgage way before TC existed. But people think their lives are so much more stable than reality would indicate

DooinMeCleanin · 19/05/2011 13:17

And as for working more hours, we are lucky DH still has a job. It's the fourth job in just a year because of redundancies and cutbacks. All he can find is temp jobs, no employer wants to risk taking on permanent staff in the current climate and then having to pay redundancy. There are no more hours available.

I work evenings, otherwise my wage (and the extra TC we would then get) would be eaten up by childcare costs).

Like it or not TC are a neccessity for a lot of families.

BranchingOut · 19/05/2011 13:18

Peachy, I don't know what to say. :(

You seem a very brave lady who is determined to do the best whatever life throws at you.

I hope you get some kind of better luck soon.

ShirleyKnot · 19/05/2011 13:18

And coco? I'm struggling to see your point? If you can't see the difference in disregarding TC as part of your income in a mortgage application as opposed to "not relying on TC to eat" then...

CaptainBarnacles · 19/05/2011 13:19

Peachy - my god, I feel for you.

Also completely agree with those posters who are saying TCs are a must for those on very low incomes. Also single parents on low wages - how can they possibly be expected to pay full whack for childcare?

I think what is often missed is that TCs are in effect a subsidy to employers, and allow them to pay less than a living wage.

feckwit · 19/05/2011 13:19

I m quite surprised by those saying they wouldn't rely on tax credits to get a mortgage - presumably you would to rent a property?

Round here, we rented for a year or so. Our rent was £950 a month for a house that was nothing special (terraced, needed work, not luxurious).

Nobody questioned whether we could afford it, we hd no choice. We needed a house, we have 4 children, we were both working but in lower paid jobs.

When we moved and bought, we had a real struggle to get a mortgage - because of the affordability criteria. Despite the fact our repayments would be £650 - so £300 short of what we were paying in rent - the banks were reluctant to lend to us. We are truly dependent on tax credits as part of our income and I dread to think what would have happened to us had we remained renting, we only just get by now.

Sonnet · 19/05/2011 13:21

Peachy that is exactly what tax credits/any other benefits are there for to help families in your situaltion.

They are not a lifestyle choice. As an example both DH and I owrk full time and no tax credits. Dh works long hours (struggleing to make his business work in this climate) therefore the bulk of childcare falls to me. i find it exhausting and stressful not to mention the huge amount of money I have to layout for childcare/afterschoolcare/holiday care. I owuld love to go part time and funily enough as I am the main wage earner if I got a part time job we would qualify for tax credits and with the bulk of child care costs not being needed would not be muchworse off. BUT in my book it is wrong to use benefits as a lifestyle choice.
Why can't OP's sister increase her working hours???

Peachy · 19/05/2011 13:22

Sonnet I agree theya re not (although there's someone on another thread- the procts one wher eI have not done myself proud) saying that all support should end and people with disabilities starve.

And people use the lifestyle choice thing and run with it.

Sonnet · 19/05/2011 13:23

Peachy - I hope this improve for you and you get the help you need and deserve :)

Peachy · 19/05/2011 13:24

Back to OP:

she bollocked you becuase she is scared and hurting and you will still love her tomorrow.

I do it to DH, and he to me. It's not ideal; understandable sometimes perhaps though.

DooinMeCleanin · 19/05/2011 13:25

They are not a lifestyle choice for anyone FFS. No-one chooses to chooses to be stuck in a low paid job. No-one wants to have to work 40 hours a week for £180 per week (which is what we get after tax etc has been deducted) Some people have to.

Instead of laying the blame at the people who choose to claim TC knowing they will need them for the rest of their working life, why not lay the blame on employers who don't want to pay a living wage?

SkyNewsAddict · 19/05/2011 13:25

I had some sympathy reading the OP, because 17K isn't a lot for any family to live on, until I read the £24p/m gym membership, the magazines each week, new clothes and takeaways bit.

We have considerably more coming in, £40K before tax, and I can't afford £24p/m gym membership, the magazines each week, new clothes and takeaways, I wish I could. We are comfortable but we don't have so much coming in that we don't have to be careful. We save wherever we can so when car repairs, childrens shoes, winter fuel bills and so on need buying we can buy them without it being a stretch.

£200 for a months food really ought to be adequate, not luxury of course, but should be plenty.

Peachy · 19/05/2011 13:26

WRt to new clothes, sometimes asda etc are far cheaper than charity shops and Ebay: bargains are hard to get now.

not that I buy many: a coat at a tenner in sales in primark last week but otherwise all ebay etc, but is getting very ahrd to undercut the supermarkets with postage rising so maybe a factor?

expatinscotland · 19/05/2011 13:27

You really need to get a life and maybe then you won't need to get so worked up over other peoples'.

SkyNewsAddict · 19/05/2011 13:27

Meant to add that I manage on about £160/month on food, not including baby formula and the odd pack of disposable nappies I buy separately in Boots. So its not as if I don't know how to manage on less than £200/month food wise.

Cocoflower · 19/05/2011 13:28

Peachy we have learnt our lessons too- both DH had both lost our income back when the recession started.

Which makes us even more cautious. Nothing in guranteed in life I know that more than most.

Shirley my point is once again why would I rely on a system that demands I pay them back £3k for no reason to eat or keep a roof over our heads? A system that landed us in debt for their mistake.

If your experience of tax credits has always been fair and secure then thats great but for us its been a disaster so not I would never rely ever

SkyNewsAddict · 19/05/2011 13:29

Peachy is right, better Asda for clothes than charity shops these days, especially for baby clothes. British Heart Foundation near me is selling baby vest for £1 each, I can get a 3 pack for £2.25 in Asda.

COCKadoodledooo · 19/05/2011 13:34

Atm, if we didn't have tax credits, we wouldn't eat. It's that simple.

DooinMeCleanin · 19/05/2011 13:34

Coco you're not getting it. Many families are stuck in a situation whereby they are not entitled to HB because their income including TC is too high, but they cannot afford to rent or buy without using the TC.

We either rely on the TC to pay our mortgage/rent or we live in a box in the street. Simples.

Sonnet · 19/05/2011 13:37

Dooinmecleanin - change one word in your first sentance and I would agree with you FFS
"They are not a lifestyle choice for anyone everyone FFS."
Yes I do think NMW should be raised - employers have got away for too long with the state subbing their workers.

BUT - and maybe it is where I live/people I know BUT I have oft heard the dilema "should I cut my hours and get Tax credits". I know of 2 "acquaintences" who run their own busines, declare little or no salary (whilst buncing cash out if the business" and think they are clever as tax credits are paying out!.

Dooinmecleanin - so should I reduce my hours and claim tax credits then?

ShirleyKnot · 19/05/2011 13:38

"Shirley my point is once again why would I rely on a system that demands I pay them back £3k for no reason to eat or keep a roof over our heads? A system that landed us in debt for their mistake."

I don't see how people on NMW can do anything other than rely on TC in order to put food in their mouths. I'm not sure what part of this is difficult to understand to be honest. I'm not talking about people relying on TC to get a mortgage (ha) or to put petrol in their car or..or..or..

I'm talking about people relying on TC to eat.

EggyAllenPoe · 19/05/2011 13:39

i agree - too many peopl edo rely on Tax credis. If women were paid more, and unemployment was lower, twould not be the case.....

i disagree re Minimum wage - many people earning it do not live off it/ support families - tax credits represents better targetting (even if the system is stupidly complex)

Cocoflower · 19/05/2011 13:40

Your telling me I dont 'get it' because we choose not to rely on something so tempremental for our shelter and food?

What are you going to do this year if you end up like us and they demand £3000 from you?