to think that too many people rely on the Tax Credits for their income.

[IdRatherBeInBed]

Bit of background first

My sister and her boyfriend has got back together after they split up last year. She was then claiming income support.

He has moved back in with her so her benefits have all stopped. she works 13.5 hours a week, he works over 30 hours. They earn £17k between them. Which lets be honest in this climate is not alot of money.

Shes just called Tax Credits to let them know hes moved back in and wanted to know what she would be entitled to WTC wise. Due to her HB/CTB stopping. Her rent is £500 per month, CT £100 per month. She is entitled to £4.90 per week.

I am sad for her because after all rent, ct, bills have gone out shes isnt left with anything. her food bill for the month has had to be cut to £200 per month. She has a car on finance (through my dad) which is shagging her tbh due to engine size (she got it when still with partner before splitting up and he had to get a 1.8 sport^^) her insurance with just her on it is £115p/m. - (she isnt 25 yet)

Anyway she called them last week to ask how much she could be entitled to, they told her £80 per week so she was like
"ooh we can afford this, we can afford that" so went out and spent £100 on clothes for her, him and nephew. I told her not to rely on what they have said because it could be wrong but she wouldn't listen and was saying 'it will be right'. Today she rings me bollocking me as to why she is only entitled to £4.90 per week.

FFS why bollock me - i dont work for them.

WIHBU to have said to her 'cancel your £24p/m gym membership, get rid of the car or change it if you can, stop getting things from catalogues that you cant pay for and get your arse of a boyfriend to stop spending money you don't have on shit like £5.50 magazines each week, stop getting shit for the garden you dont need, you don't need so many fucking flowery things to make a garden look nice.

Or what i come across as a complete and utter bitch.

She is one of these who says "oh i have no money" but yet has enough for new clothes or go out for a meal, or takeaway"

FFS

You makingmy angry now expat.

I do not have a problem with TC- why would I have applied for them?! Why is the renewal pack sitting on my desk as I speak?

You clearly cannot see my point.

If they are there great, fantastic. If you want to rely on them then fab.I will NEVER rely on them and thats our bussiness really just as its your bussiness if you choose to rely on them.

Oh yeah, expat. We're all fucked TBH. But it's going to be interesting (as someone who has spent years having these sort of arguments with people who like to think "get on your bike and get a job") to see how attitudes change as those on higher incomes start to feel the sting that many poor people have suffered for years.

You don't HAVE to rely on them coco. That's the point that you seem determined to ignore for some reason

Coco you are lucky

I am A Christian, I have been to Church only once in years as the boys cannot access the CHurch. Vicar is lovely but the otehr worshippers eye us with caution; at last Parish we were asked not to return until ds1 could promise not to stim in services.

It's amazing how much is closed to you when you become atypical. And how much that should be there isn't if you don;t have the right postcode (we can;t use surestart, homestart for example).

But crucially it's amazing how much you elarn only if you are in the system. I assumed that if your children were disabled you got what was needed. Even when I worked in the charity sector I assumed we made up a lot of the gap so it was OK.

How very deluded I was.

If you cannot get out then nobody knows you are there. DH adn I have discussed him working away and me stating home here: apart from alst time I worked away DH became very ill so leaving me with some deserved fears, I would be far too vulnerable as would the younger boys if I was alone with ds1 on a meltdown.

I miss my faith, I have an RE degree and it means a lot to me but like so many basics- parks, long walks, keeping clean unless I have a willing babysitter if Dh is working- it's closed to me on a social level.

'So if you this year they turn around and tell you your only going to get £20 per month may I ask you what you would do?
' starve.

If anything happens to DH that may happen. Becuase the new disability lawws don;t really cassify autism as a disability from 2013 even as a SNU level disorder, and you cannot sign on if you are not available or get CA if the child does not get DLA / PIP.

I hope DH never goes. Or dies. Or gets very ill. Obviously I hoped that anyway as I love Dh, but should my survival (not the boys, obviously they would be taken into care though I assure you i would then not be coping enough to work) depend on his existence?

Had I been 16 and starting out in a world with no benefits (someone on the pro cuts thread advocates no benfots and starvation for those who cannot work) I might have been abl;e to save but no, we paid (and pay) the NI

For an insurance system that clearly considers us worth less than someting it wiped off it's shoes.

Coco do you think everyone chooses to rely on them?

Cocoflower - you sound very lucky that you can choose not to rely on them. What are the people who don't have a choice supposed to do?

All I did was ask you questions other people also asked. If you don't like that and don't chose to answer, I can't say I'm bothered.

When I have taken been offered goverment help (goverment pays for PGCEs and NHS courses btw) of course Ive taken the help.

I DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE ACCEPTING HELP. I HAVE ACCEPTED HELP MYSELF. YOU ARE MISSING MY POINT.

However I have been very shafted by the goverment too. THERFORE I DO NOT RELY ON THEM EVER NOW.

There is a huge difference between what you think Im saying and what I really am saying

Re-reading I wonder if there's some confusion about TCs?

Years ago when they were set up it was in effct a tax rebate.

However since then they have replaced other benefits: income support, what used to be family credit, disability payments come in via tax credits.

The idea of dropping them and simply cutting tax is fine for the old system but woudl leave huge gaps where even Maggie Thatcher had benefits in palce.

I'm going to say it one more time (for those in the back)

Coco - your assertion that you CHOOSE not to rely on them is nonsense. Some people rely on them because without them they would STARVE.

It is not a choice. Unless the choice is Die or rely on TCs.

Exactly, Shirley.

Oh I see Coc

The relying bit, I get you.

Yes, can see that. People need toa ccept that things they do rely on will end.

Universal Credit is the end to working tax credits and child trax credits for example. many will be caught in the gap.

Planning to rely on them through choice is unwise. relying on them becuase you have to is not a great idea though.

Yes, that's very true.

So cocoflower, what can I do so as not to rely on TCs? If I put them in the bank, how should I pay the rent, electric, nursery, buy food?

coco

You are lucky then to be in a postion where you do not need to rely on them to survive many of us are not and will never be .

Why is it nonscence? We get £20 pcm.

Yet I bet even that will be wiped out next year. Therefore they dont go into our budget.

Its not a hard concept is it?

Peachy: "relying on them becuase you have to is not a great idea though"

What should the poor do instead?

Well I just did the entitled to prediction on what information you have said.

On a combined income of 17000.00

They MAY get around £65 a week which is child tax credit and working tax credit combined which works out to about £260.00 per every 4 weeks

Around £2.40 per week towards their council tax which is £9.60 every 4 weeks

Around £48 a week for housing benefit which is £195.00ish off rent every 4 weeks

Plus will still get child benefit of £81.20 a month

So total in benefits around £545.32 every 4 weeks

Obviously this is only an estimate as not sure on all details but was the £4.90 a week she has been quoted just for working tax credit? not including child tax credit?

Oh and we can survive on £200 a month for food shopping for 2 adults, 2 children and 2 cats so it is possible

^Oh I see Coc

The relying bit, I get you.

Yes, can see that. People need toa ccept that things they do rely on will end.

Universal Credit is the end to working tax credits and child trax credits for example. many will be caught in the gap.

Planning to rely on them through choice is unwise. relying on them becuase you have to is not a great idea though.

Yes, that's very true.^

YES! Thank you this is my one and only point. Thank you so much

ritamorgan- i think you are talking to a brick wall with some people they really "don't get it"
"replying on them because you have to is not a great idea though"
I know, how about you swap your high end job where you DONT have to rely on TC with some people who do need to rely on them and see how you feel when people judge comment on how its not a good idea to rely on them.

Not relying on £20 a month = easy

Not relying on £500 a month = impossible

Do you understand that cocoflower?

I think people who spend like that are daft, but the phrase "rely on the Tax Credits for their income. is just as silly as if you said "rely on their wages for their income.

20pcm well then since you feel you can afford to leave it in the bank ,your obviously not relying on it to eat and to pay bills.Not everyone has that option

Rita nah that was a typo through lack of sleep.

And believe me if you ahd read my post above (maybe you did sorry) you'd know that was us!

I meant eitehr

'feeling bad becuase you are relying on them becuase you have to is not a great idea though'

or 'relying on them becuase you have to is not the same as choice though'