to feel a bit funny that a friend has a photo of a dead baby as her profile picture?

[HowToLookGoodGlaikit]

A friend (distant) has put up a photo of her cousins very obviously dead (I think stillborn) baby as her profile picture, as a "tribute".

AIBU to find this a bit weird? The photo makes me feel uncomfortable. Is this my problem, and it is in fact a nice thing to do to honour the poor wee child? Her cousins has put "thank you" underneath, so she must think its a fitting tribute. Maybe its just me. I am quite prepared to admit I am BU if need be.

My best friend died in a car accident when he was 25. We were like brother and sister. I was (and still am, even though it's been almost 10 years) utterly devastated.

I refused to see him after he died. Even though his mum offered to open the casket for me. Even though I come from a culture in which death is not seen as such a taboo as in the English culture.

Why did I refuse? Because for me, seeing him dead would have contaminated the memories I had from him. There is an instinctive feeling in ME (perhaps not in other people, but there is definitely there for me) that makes me horrified of seeing dead people. Had I looked at my friend when he was dead, that memory would have haunted me, I would see him dead in my nightmares, and it would have taken me years to be able to picture him alive again. I know, because it has happened to me again. I know, because it has happened to other people in my family with their own family members.

Mothers all around me have lost babies. I even told here in MN the story of Maria Elena, the aunt that I never met. My 98-year-old gran talked about her for her whole life. I loved hearing stories about her very short life. I am the person who has no problems asking about people who are not there. So I won't take anyone telling me I have no empathy.

I refuse to look at photos of dead people, whatever their age, and I make no apologies for it. Looking at a photo of anybody's dead child would not cause the effect in me their mother wants. I wouldn't see "a beautiful baby". I would be shocked, and scared, and I would have nightmares. I would never forget that photo, but for all the wrong reasons, and I am 100% sure no mother would want anyone to feel like that, or to remember their loved ones like that.

That is why I CHOOSE not to see these photos. I choose to hear the stories, to comfort, to hug, to ask questions, to offer help. In cases where there are no other photos than the ones where the baby is not alive, I actively ask NOT to se the photo. Because I want to smile hearing about that baby's kicks, about how the mum felt when he/she was growing inside her. If there are no other memories, I want to hear everything about names, about pregnancy, about anything. Seeing the photo would't let me enjoy all that.

This is the way I am, and again I make no excuses for being like this. Some people on this thread have been abusive, and have used their own traumatic experiences to try to silence others with arguments as valid as theirs. I have never lost a baby. But I am not inferior to anyone else in this thread (or any other). Being sensitive to photos of dead people is not a defect. It is actually a completely natural and human reaction.

To the ones of you "threatening" to post photos of your angel babies... go ahead if that makes you feel better. You may even succeed in making people look at them, even the ones that don't want to. But believe me, with people like me, it won't achieve anything positive. I would rather hear you telling me about them and be able to enjoy the happiness that they once brought to you.

I can't comprehend any mentality that would have a dead baby on view for anyone and everyone to see, not saying it's wrong, just I can't understand it. I lost a niece 2wks old, if anyone had had posted her dead body as a 'profile pic' I would have been mortified. Some things are private, and imo should remain that way. Would you post a picture of a dead relative who wasn't an infant? Seems very disrespectful to me and almost cheapens it :-( x

aurynne You have said exactly what I wanted to say but couldnt find the words to, without feeling I would cause offence. Reading your post, I was nodding & thinking "thats exactly how I feel".

People deal with grief differently. Having been recently bereaved myself what would really get to me was knowing that there was some one there judging me for the way I was dealing with it, that would really upset me and does strike me as quite an unpleasant thing (though I know you can't help what you feel and why - perhaps bare in mind that what they are feeling, and the way they choose to go about dealing with it is more important right now).

Aurynne - here's a surprise for you - it's not all about you - fancy that.

Parents who don't have photos of their child alive are not putting their photos on their profiles to 'make you look at them' they are putting them there because they are as much a part of their lives as their living children (if they are fortunate enough to have them) and they don't want them 'put away' in a box so as not to upset others. Some prefer to keep the photos private and that's their choice too. Each to their own. It's a shame it bothers you, lots of things on peoples profiles bother other people

Pebbles - try educating yourself and read the thread instead of being so totally offensive.

aurynne maybe you can answer my question then that's been ignored before. When my daughter was born alive and when she died you wouldn't tell the difference in pictures. I have never stated when they were taken. If I didn't tell you when they were taken would that make it different seeing them?

pebbles, not "a dead baby" the only picture someone has of their child. I assume at two weeks old there were lots of pictures of your niece, I know in the first two weeks of my LC lives there were lots of pictures taken. An adult has lots of pictures of them. When all you have of your child is 6 pictures it doesn't give you much choice. But feel glad, be grateful, "thank God it's them instead of you" that you never have to understand the mentality of us people. You wouldn't last a day in my mentality.

what chippin in says, most parents have memories of their children, parents who have stillborn children, those photos are the only memory of there loved ones, why should they hide their own feelings of THEIR child, and be openly proud of THEIR baby, just so it doesn't cause upset to others.

You are putting your feelings, before that of a grieving parent.

Stillborn babies are called stillborn, the reason being they WE'RE STILL BORN!. those two words have significant meaning.

I can't help but think that if I saw such a photo, the only thoughts I would have is sadness for the grieving parents and an overwhelming feeling of "there but for the grace of god go I". People put those photos up I would imagine because it goes a little way towards soothing the hurt. I can understand being saddened by the photo but I can't imagine feeling annoyed or offended by them (as I am by lots of other photos on there!) Unfortunately death will touch all of our lives at some point, in some way. Hiding away from reminders of it sadly doesn't change that.

I just want to say again how sorry I am for everyone's losses. It's heartbreaking to hear what people have to go through :(

'Would you post a picture of a dead relative who wasn't an infant? '
Yes but as has been said parents of stillborns have NO pictures of the baby being alive. As also someone posted what if a baby was alive for an hour, would a picture just before it died be OK but one 10 secs after not be OK? What if you can't tell the difference.

'The test might be cheap but a miscarriage is cheaper than a pregnancy.'

Not really for a later one as there is the funeral, post mortem etc as well as full birth. I agree with you about the APS test, it should be more used.

Deemented... I missed your post last night, I really am so sorry for your loss. It doesn't really get any easier, does it? :(

Aurynne... I thought your post was sensitively written, with a lot of thought behind it and I agree with what you wrote, it really struck a chord with me.

jellybeans... It's fine to post whatever pictures you want to post but, in my view, it's a matter of respect for other people where you post them. The difference between a live baby and a dead baby might not be apparent and the timing really doesn't matter, but if the poster makes a point of stating that the photo is of a dead child, then people who would not want to see 'dead photos' have had their choice taken away. A friend might well ask to see photos, or at the least, understand that it's a part of the process for their friend and manage to overcome their fears to do that. That's the difference.

This is just an awful, emotional topic and the worst of it is that it cannot help but upset the posters who have been affected this way. :(

jellybeans, true but the cost isn't to the NHS. I know Prof Hughes has been on the news recently saying every pregnant woman should be tested for it, I agree. I'd do it at the booking in appointment and I'd do it for every miscarriage pre-booking in too.

So Lying, it is in the knowledge. If I showed you my daughter and said it was before she died you'd be happier than if I said it was after she died or if I said this one was before and this one was after, although you wouldn't be able to see the difference you'd be more comfortable with the living one. Which just goes to prove it's not the picture that's the problem but the thought.

I've had this same debate for the last 4.5 years, only it's not been about angel babies. People let their imagination get in the way of what's actually in a picture. Another example is a lady who asked on another forum what people thought of her avatar as she had been banned from another site for it. The posts took one of two directions "it looks like you're in a swimming costume, it's a nice bump pic" or "that's disgusting, you're wearing a teddy!" some of the posters who thought she was wearing a teddy read it was a swimming costume and posted "Oh it's a swimming costume, that's OK." It wasn't the picture that was the problem but the mind of the person looking at it. You're entitled to your feelings but they're usually influenced by what you think you are seeing and not on what's actually happening - whether that is what someone's wearing, how much skin is showing on a nursing picture or at what point in an angel baby's life that picture was taken.

Confuddled... I don't know you, you don't know me. Your personal and private life is just that, we post alongside. However, if I chatted with you, online or in person then we would have a relationship and I would want to be a good friend and talk about things that matter. I posted that I'd looked at my friend's photo of her dead baby boy up in her living room, he's beautiful, he really is. I knew about him, of course, and had been with my friend throughout so I suppose that I managed to override my feelings for the sake of my friend. I would look at either photo and see the beautiful child of my friend. Do you see the distinction?

If I was in a facebook group with you and you had your photo album with all kinds of pictures in it, including your daughter, I'd know you, know of your daughter and I would override my feelings - or I wouldn't - but the only comment you'd get from me is that your daughter is beautiful. All babies are beautiful, wherever they are. I would certainly not make you feel bad in any way and I'd be happy to talk to you about your daughter.

If we had mutual friends and I happened upon a photo of your daughter, I probably wouldn't be any the wiser and would think your daughter is beautiful. If I then heard that your daughter's photo was one of when she had died, I would feel uncomfortable but again, you wouldn't know because I would do nothing to indicate that to you.

I'm not given to snap judgements, the only time I notice what somebody is wearing is when I'm admiring whatever it is and wondering where they got it from. There are too many judgemental people who really do sweat the small stuff, ie. a teddy versus a swimming costume. I really wouldn't notice, other than that if you were a friend of mine and you were wearing odd shoes, or your skirt was tucked into your knickers, I'd tell you before we went out. :)

So again, it's in the knowledge. You'd feel more comfortable knowing the pictures were from before death than after.

I've asked the question about four times on this thread and no one has (been brave enough to?) answered until now.

I'm not saying that you would prefer a picture of someone in their swimming costume to a teddy, it was just an example of how people's mind controls what they think of a picture, not what's in the picture. Another example is someone wearing a skimpy top was telling me how disgusting my picture was because I was breastfeeding in it. I had less skin on show and my baby was out of focus, the picture was of me kissing my older daughter, the amount of skin wasn't the issue, it's what she knew I was doing that was. Our thoughts dictate our reactions, not the other way around.

I have just read the whole thread, and have changed my opinion somewhat.

I am not sorry for calling some of you insensitive fuckers, some of you are. I've read some of the worst kinds of evil judgment on this thread, and I am now questioning who the bleeding hell some of you are, and how many sub-human excuses for women are on this thread.

Bacchus and those who backed her up are simply despicable. I have never been so enraged by comments on a forum. Have you no decency? SGB I'm surprised by you.

As for whoever it was that said the people who are so upset by this shouldn't be on this thread, you can fuck right off. Along with those saying it is 'sick' to show the only fucking existing pictures of our babies.

I am astounded that some idiots on here thing that people are lacking in empathy/sympathy/feeling for them simply because they don't want to see pictures of dead babies. Tough shit. We don't want to have pictures of dead babies. We want live ones. You can't always get what you want, so we have to make the most of what we have.

Some of you need to take a long, hard look at yourselves and try to find a modicum of decency and sympathy. There are many people claiming to be really open to hearing all about their friends' deceased children, to be the ones who mop up the tears etc... I can pretty much guess that you are the kinds of people who like to think that, but probably your poor bereaved friends see it differently.

I'm so fucking cross. Why are some of you here? Is this a game to you? Is it fun to upset people who come to a forum looking for support after a tragedy? Do you enjoy worsening grief? Well you have. Shame on you insensitive fuckers.

Won't go into detail but child I looked after died at 4yo. (lots of medical problems) but was sudden unexpected death. DC parents profile picture changes with different photos of this child.

Has never ever crossed my mind this may be wierd or unappropriate....until now. and very very

I've read this thread and just can't work out where I sit with it at all. I had a similar situation where a loose acquaintance posted a FB post of her stillborn son on Facebook and it made me feel shocked, uncomfortable and then very sad. I completely understood why she did it but it didn't stop me feeling discomfort.

And I think that's the point, we are human beings and it is natural to feel that way, nobody should be vilified for it. And by the same token it's not up to anyone to decide how a bereaved parent should behave, or decide what is acceptable or not acceptable. But it's important that everyone should be allowed to state their feelings, because when it comes to something like this there's no right or wrong response.

Loopy... You can obviously post where you like but there is a parenting board where others not in that position do not post so I do wonder why you are on this thread. Your bereavement does not give you the the right to post abuse. You can make assumptions all you like about whether or not I am a decent friend to have around in times of trouble but you're ignorant of the reality.

I'm not going to respond to you again.

Why do you wonder why I'm on this thread? This thread is about stillbirth. I have suffered a stillbirth. Why are you on this thread? Simply to upset others, it would seem.

Why should I only post in parenting? Do you mean bereavement, not parenting?

Or is this the 'Let's talk about stillbirth but only if you haven't experienced it' thread? Your logic escapes me.

Helium, you don't need to think it might be weird or inappropriate. It's no different to if their child was still alive and they wanted to put the pictures as their profile picture. I can see why this thread might leave you questioning though which is

Well said dickie. Too many people want to fill in what people in a totally alien situation should feel. From the thread earlier in the year where we were being told what we should feel over EE, to this thread telling us we should hide our angel babies and keep our grief to ourselves (with no suggestion we can actually move on from grief) to the thread about children with long term sickness or disabilities being upset about being punished by the school for their attendance and being told they should have more important things to worry about. Seriously people, if you've not been in someone's shoes, feel grateful and don't tell them how they're walking wrong.

I am a bereaved mum ... I remember being told not long afterwards at work that I should stop talking about it as it made people uncomfortable

i was devastated.. I really didnt want to upset anyone and then my friend said ...

fm you are the one this happened to .. not the other people. They will worry about what you said for a little while you will have to live with the reality all your days.

This is the same thing .. your discomfort is nothing compared to the parents and if you were a friend you would understand it .. if you are not a friend then remove them from your facebook

I think you're right, Confuddled, it is in the 'knowledge'. I was thinking about whether it would be the same for the circumstances as heliumballoons posted; it would. A picture of a dead child is discomforting in the way that pictures of a live child who has subsequently died, aren't. I've been thinking about this and, if we were conditioned, as children, to accept photos en bloc, regardless of whether the person was dead, the uncomfortable feelings wouldn't exist.