To be shocked that I have to pray?

[LoopyLoopsBettyBoops]

I have recently been elected as a district councillor. The first full council meeting is coming up, and I have just discovered that we are expected to pray. Heads must be bowed.

I have little issue with people who choose to pray, but how on earth is assuming Christianity on behalf of democratically elected members of the public in any way a positive thing? It surely can't lead to true representation of the public? If I were strongly religious but from a different group, ie. Jewish or Muslim, would I still be expected to pray? Remember the Jehova's witnesses who were allowed to sit out of C of E assembly in primary school? Would they have to pray?

I'm simply shocked. Not enough to do anything about it other than a very slight bow of the head rather than full kowtow, but still shocked. AIBU?

How odd. I would nip this in the bud. Now is the best time as there are new people on the council.

Have a quiet word with other councillors to check others support your view, then raise it when prayers are introduced at the next meeting?

Oh, good grief, poetry?

They should just get on with the agenda and make time to listen to deputations from their hard-pressed residents and businesses!

Reasonably common as far as I know. Start by respecting convention, then make inquiries amongst other Councillors and the clerk and you may find everyone is anti this and you can change your Standing Orders (if it is in there).

I think you should try to get rid of this. I hate the assumption that people are Christian, in many ways it is disrespectful to committed Christians. It also makes organisations like district councils less welcoming to those of other faiths and none.

Lubberlich - "Don't waste your time with the National Secular Soc - silly self serving little clique of old men that will never achieve anything."

Instead roll over and accept that the influence of that other little clique of old men in the Synod can't be challenged??

Its quite unusual. But there are a few councils that still do this.

I go to a number of trade functions where grace is said before dinner. I most certainly don't bow my head. I also don't take part in the loyal toast. Bit of a rebel me! :o

Himalaya: for as long as there is an Established Church in UK, then yes that is precisely what it means and it is backed by law. It's not like institutionaliser racism (illegal), it is a reflection of the law of the land.

I really am struggling to see what the issue is. If some councillors want to pray then let them. You don't want to pray, so don't! Simples!

This is not Saudi Arabia - no-one is going to force you to pray if you don't want to.

well said Rhinestone. I can't see the problem either.

If they want to pray, why don't they meet up 10 min early and have a good praying session, rather than waste the OP's time?

If you are not religious then don't stand, don't bow your head and don't pray. You have the right to respect for your non-religious beliefs.

ROFL @ 'nip this in the bud' It has probably been going on for centuries. I do hope that OP has more pressing matters to campaign on.

I think it is quite a good idea for a political meeting to start with a bit of moralising - make them remember why they are there.

Start off by just standing quietly, head unbowed, and see how many others are doing the same thing - its what I do in circumstances like class assemblies, there's usually quite a few fellow goats among the sheep

Then you'll get some idea if you're likely to get any support if you challenge the status quo. Its not a legal requirement, just a practice which some councils have ditched and some still anachronistically retain. The NSS can doubtless give you more info.

Meditrina - er, sorry I don't get it. Don't support an organisation campaigning to change the law...because it's the law, and laws don't ever change??

YABU. It's the law of the land and I agree with lubberlich about "this fair nation of ours".

If it was the law of the land then EVERY council meeting up and down the country would have to do it instead of just those that can be bothered. I've never heard of this quaint practice before and am . Go NSS!

No, Himalaya: I interpreted that to be "accept that the influence of that other little clique of old men in the Synod can't be challenged" be a descriptive statement, and at present it can't be.

There was a thread a week or so ago about the disestablishment of the church. A very short thread. There doesn't seem to be much support for that. I never intended to say that anyone should be inhibited from seeking a change in the law. But I think this one may not be the top of anyone's "to do" list, given the apathy with which the issue is usually met.

Don't join in. Stand or sit respectfully quietly while they get on with their praying but don't bow your head. I say this as a practising Christian who would have no problem with it but who entirely respects the views of those who don't share my beliefs. As a previous poster, I never join in with loyal toasts or stand for the national anthem, because I am a republican. You are an atheist, there is no excuse for expecting you to join in prayers.

When I worked in the civil service we had something called 'prayers'. The first time I saw it on my schedule I was

They weren't actual prayers - it was a government word meaning a type of catch-up meeting where everyone stands and takes turns to go through their lists. Are you sure you are actually being expected to pray (religiously) and it's not a terminology issue?

You could join the British Humanist Association.

Bideford Town Council Prayers: www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/07/lord-carey-council-prayers-battle

"The NSS has been appealing for people to find out if prayers are being said at their local council. Around half of the 120 authorities it lists on its website still say prayers."

quite prevalent, I'd say.

It happens in the House of Lords every single day as well and is compulsory.

Oh no! You have to be in the same room while people pray!

I hope there are on site counselling services for those of a nervous disposition!

Doris - attendance at the House of Lords prayers is not compulsory.

Why not just ask for the prayers to happen before the meeting is convened and you can come in after. Why should the OP waste her time sitting through prayers? She is doing enough public service by being a councillor.

The reason this is fundamentally wrong and should be campaigned against is because it is sending out the message that if you are not a Christian you are not properly qualified for public office. It is divisive and encourages discrimination against Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Wiccans, [oh insert the name of your own or any other particular brand of superstitious crap yourself, can't be bothered to list the lot] as well as people who don't have any imaginary friends and don't want any.

If you are one of these numpties who actually has to talk to your imaginary friend every day you can do it at home. Or indeed in one of those specially designated places where you get to hang out with your equally daft mates and indulge in your silly little hobby all together.
It's got no place in public life, at lest not the sort of public life that is about settling issues affecting the whole community, not just the ones who have bought into a particular mythology that is still given undue and unfair privilege.