To be shocked that I have to pray?

[LoopyLoopsBettyBoops]

I have recently been elected as a district councillor. The first full council meeting is coming up, and I have just discovered that we are expected to pray. Heads must be bowed.

I have little issue with people who choose to pray, but how on earth is assuming Christianity on behalf of democratically elected members of the public in any way a positive thing? It surely can't lead to true representation of the public? If I were strongly religious but from a different group, ie. Jewish or Muslim, would I still be expected to pray? Remember the Jehova's witnesses who were allowed to sit out of C of E assembly in primary school? Would they have to pray?

I'm simply shocked. Not enough to do anything about it other than a very slight bow of the head rather than full kowtow, but still shocked. AIBU?

[LoopyLoopsBettyBoops]

I thought the same GooGoo, excellent word exotic!

I understand that the Queen is head of Church and state. I disagree that this should be the case, but I understand that it is.

I simply don't think it is appropriate, given the low percentage of practicing Christians in this country. It is divisive, and could hinder a proper balance of the community.

I might support the Secular Society. I think perhaps I'll leave it a little while to find my feet first, but I certainly won't be doing any actual praying.

[TheMitfordsMaid]

You need to get a copy of standing orders to see what it actually says. If it mentions praying you could put forward a resolution to change it if you want to.

[EldritchCleavage]

You don't have to pray. No one can make you. Just stand quietly (head not bowed) until everyone has finished. I doubt anyone will say anything to you about it.

[shelscrape]

How odd. The house of commons has morning prayers before business everyday, but it is up to individual MP's whether they attend for prayers or not, quite a small group attend i understand. I am a christian, but there should never be a requirement to pray in public life.

[onagar]

It's supposed to be a free and democratic country. Just because lots of institutions have old traditions is no excuse.

We used to have institutional racism too, but we're working to eradicate that and eventually this other stuff will go too.

I would remain silent out of politeness (even though their inclusion of religion is far from polite) but before I bow my head you'd need to beat me unconscious.

[ComeIntoTheGardenMaud]

I didn't think anyone was excusing it, but knowing where it comes from tells you something about what is most likely to bring about change.

[LoveBeingAbleToNamechange]

Isn't this the reason Blair converted to cathlic after he finished being pm?

[glassofwhiteanybody]

I'm surprised. I'd ask other people what they think about it

[SardineQueen]

I had no idea that this sort of thing went on. Prayers before council meetings? I am like this no exaggeration.

Was also about prayers before parliament but if it's optional i suppose I can just about live with that

[raindroprhyme]

i would expect governors of a faith school to pray as it is a faith school and surely teh whole reason you are involved is to do with your faith.
At the council meeting seems a bit strange that you have to pray.

[exoticfruits]

I would enquire into it-I'm sure it isn't common.
The secular society are trying to get change-see here and join to get change-if it bothers you.(much better than ranting on your own!)

[Rhinestone]

Well just don't do it then. Don't really see what the big deal is. Don't bow your head, just sit quietly and if someone says anything then say, "Oh, I don't believe in God and obviously don't pray so I just sit quietly."

Us Christians are perfectly capable of understanding that some people don't share our beliefs and would much prefer that you were simply honest about it!

[iklboo]

I'm gping to a full church wedding on Saturday. I won't pray and I won't join in the hymns. I will bow my head and reflect during the prayers as a mark of respect. And then field 'you weren't praying/singing' rant from BIL who is equally as non-religious as we are, but thinks he is sucking up to his dad (who doesn't care that we're not religious).

[LoopyLoopsBettyBoops]

Sorry to be in a rush - it's not even sitting, you have to stand!

Back later

[ComeIntoTheGardenMaud]

Is it compulsory to be there for the prayers, OP? Could you come in later, a la House of Commons?

[numbskull]

Some one objected to this where I live, a couple of years ago.
I am trying to recall the details because I know after he kicked up, he was soundly routed with legal arguments, that I seem to remember did hinge on us being a Christian country.
I know he got nowhere on it; wish I could remember.

[Rhinestone]

Oh seriously who cares! What are they going to do? Politely explain your non-belief and give assurances that you will not interfere with anyone else praying and leave it at that.

Sit, stand, lie down, I very much doubt that God minds very much.

[lubberlich]

Why are people shocked by this?
Church and state are tightly entwined in this fair nation of ours.

Don't waste your time with the National Secular Soc - silly self serving little clique of old men that will never achieve anything.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Unless the prayer is highly specific to christianity then it can be treated as a pan-relgious/non-religious 'thought for the day'. A quietly shared moment rather than an overt act of worship.

[MortaIWombat]

"We used to have institutional racism too, but we're working to eradicate that and eventually this other stuff will go too."

What a bizarre analogy. I mean, I'm not Christian (or even religious), but I fail to see the similarities, and am slightly offended on behalf of nice well-meaning Christians.

OP, just sit in silence that is respectful of the views of others, without subscribing to them yourself. Easy.

[Blu]

I fail to see why the fact that the Queen is Head of the CoE, and also Head of State means that the two must conflate in prayers before a council meeting!

Yes, the CoE is the established church, but our country is governed by a democratically elected parliament, not the General Synod - why should prayers be part of the proceedings?

I have been in council meetings in about 5 different London boroughs and not seen it.

[ravenAK]

Tthe standing up bit does make it mildly awkward. I'd just say: 'Oh, I don't pray - I'm an atheist - would it be better if I left the room whilst those who wish to, pray, or should I just sit quietly?'

I wouldn't be doing any standing OR bowing, as both are actions that are part & parcel with the prayer - if it were a sitting down prayer I probably wouldn't bother commenting, but would just let 'em get on with it whilst I doodled...

[vic77en]

They recently stopped the prayer bit in our local council meetings in favour of a poetry reading. Twas in the local papers and lots of people wrote letters along the lines of "what is the world coming to?".
I'm all for getting rid of praying, though not sure a spot of bad poetry improves the situation....

[ginghamspider]

Never heard of this in the UK. DH has been at corporate board meetings in Trinidad and everyone prays before the meeting starts. He just joined in after initial surprise. When in Rome and all that...but first time I've heard of that in what I think of as our more secular UK society.

[DorisDoesntDance]

this has been the subject of a massive dispute in bideford town council for a few years now. they voted as to wehether to continue, but split the council. it's a mess.

it received a fair bit of national coverage though.