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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be dismayed at the increasing number of pregnant women I see smoking

305 replies

likingthespring · 13/05/2011 15:37

I used to notice the odd one or two but I've seen loads recently. Maybe it's not that there's more women smoking in pregnancy but just more not giving a shit what people think.

OP posts:
CurrySpice · 15/05/2011 19:28

I know it's none of my business. I know it's a free country. I know it's hard to give up smoking but fuck it I reserve the right to be "dismayed" (and then some!) when I see a pg woman smoking :(

Of course I don't think that means the baby should be taken away ffs! Hmm

I see a lot of self-justification and guilt on this thread :(

K999 · 15/05/2011 19:42

You are perfectly entitled to be dismayed. As I have said on this thread, I am sometimes dismayed at certain things too.

The "taking away children" comment was in reply to another poster further down this thread.

GingerWrath · 15/05/2011 20:43

Late to the thread but I was a smoker that the MW told to not stress about giving up...After dd was born I had a 'smoking fleece' that I wore to smoke outside and was kept in the shed. I also washed my hands and brushed my teeth before handling my child.

Nicotine replacement therapy was NOT allowed when I was pregnant. Cold turkey was out of the question, nicotine addiction has been likened to heroin addiction for some.

I am very glad that some of you have never done anything that you regret, but I started smoking in school due to it being the 'done thing'.

I am an awesome Mum, I love my daughter more than words. She is healthy, happy and G&T.

Nobody is perfect..I bet some of the judgey Mums on this thread have things they aren't telling us, gives their kids Greggs sausage rolls/turkey twizzlers/Fruit shoots regularly or have raised spoilt DC

TheBlindAssassin · 15/05/2011 20:59

I think some have misunderstood me, so I ought to clarify - I definitely do NOT hold the view that children should be taken away from mothers who smoked whilst they were pregnant. I was trying to use that paragraph to point out that so many opinions further up in the thread were so hateful towards women who smoke in pregnancy that one would assume that result to be a natural conclusion to the way those people think, even if that woman went on to be a brilliant mother over decades of their children's lives. Apparently, according to some on here, that one act of smoking would negate a lifetime of love and care Hmm

People are entitled to be dismayed - heck, judge as much as you like - it still does not change the fact that those women who smoke in pregnancy are doing something completely and utterly legal. If you have an issue with this, why don't you lobby your MP to introduce a Bill outlawing smoking in pregnancy (or, in fact, smoking full stop)? I can almost certainly guarantee you that, no matter how much public decency is outraged, such a Bill will never be passed anytime soon. Like it or not, the government realises how much revenue they generate from cigarettes alone and they are not about to jepoardise that, especially in economically constrained times - all they can do (and have been doing) is to increase taxes on cigarettes to a level where it becomes economically non-viable for most people who smoke. Once the inability to purchase cigarettes means that the government are generating negligible revenue from it (ie it costs more to allow smoking than to ban it), only then will smoking be outlawed.

So whilst you sit there with your judgy pants pulled high, you should accept the fact that if you receive government assistance in any shape or form (be that child benefit, tax credits, JSA, subsidised public transport, the NHS, receipt of council services, driving on government-maintained roads etc), you are directly or indirectly benefiting from that woman you deign to judge so harshly.

And an aside - if you drive, use gas central heating, buy any items manufactured in a process that gives off pollutants, etc, you are (as an individual and as part of a group) doing far more to cause short-term and long-term harm to that woman's unborn child (and many more unborn children) than she is doing through smoking through pregnancy.

RedbinD · 15/05/2011 21:14

OP - what exactly is wrong with "not giving a shit what people think"?

teaforone · 15/05/2011 21:17

i smoke :( bad mummy

K999 · 15/05/2011 21:27

TheBlindAssassin - thank you for clarifying.

hairfullofsnakes · 15/05/2011 22:35

Yes usualsuspect it was more widespread 'back in the day' - but now, the dangers to a foetus are so widely known, so the question is, if you know how bad it is for baby, how can it ever be ok? The answer is, it can't ever be ok

K999 - you say you aspire to be non-judgmental but if we all lived like that would there not be chaos? Do you not have any judgements on say, pedophiles?

hairfullofsnakes · 15/05/2011 22:38

I will never cease to be astounded that some people continue to try and justify smoking when pg and poisoning their unborn children and giving them no choice but to take in nicotine.

FunnysInTheGarden · 15/05/2011 22:40

I have never seen a pregnant woman smoke (except me a bit with DS2) and I live in a very posh area, so aye woman who are under a lot of stress daily are likely to smoke pregnant or not. HTH......

usualsuspect · 15/05/2011 22:42

I was replying to mrs daily mail reader BiPolarPaulines lovely post actually

no one said its ok just that some of us don't live the perfect live that you seem too

usualsuspect · 15/05/2011 22:42

life*

K999 · 15/05/2011 22:47

Hairfullofsnakes...paedophilia is abhorrent and utterly wrong. That's my opinion. I leave the judgement of them to the courts. Fwiw I don't think for one minute you are comparing smoking in pregnancy to paedophilia are you?

hairfullofsnakes · 15/05/2011 22:53

No K of course I am not I just wondered if there was anything you 'judged'

Well at least we have the courts to judge certain things eh?!

And to all those who keep harping on about 'being perfect' I haven't heard anyone on here who judges smoking when pg say anything about being perfect.

I am far far from perfect, not at all and I was a very addicted smoker but I stopped (it was HELL and I still miss smoking sometimes!) because it is not fair to inflict that on my babies.

LDNmummy · 15/05/2011 23:05

"So, LDNmummy, if you are going to shrug off the effects of traffic exhaust, boilers, waste incinerators, industrial processes (manufacturing, construction etc) on your health as compared to smoking, be that active or passive smoking, then at least educate yourself about it."

Agreed Blind and I will come back to this later, just wanted to pop in as I had forgotten about this thread and saw your response.

attachedmummy · 15/05/2011 23:15

I decided to give up smoking and drinking when I found out I was pregnant, my choice. Even though in my opinion it's not the right thing to do to smoke while pregnant, every pregnant mother makes that choice - there isn't much the average joe can do about it either.

millie30 · 15/05/2011 23:29

Women have the information, they know the risks, the rest is up to them. Nobody knows what someone may be going through during their pregnancy or how hard they may have tried to give up. So people can judge all they want if it makes them feel better to do so, but there is nothing anyone can do about it, other than policing or legislating over pregnant women's bodies, which is to me a far more abhorrent thought than smoking during pregnancy.

sausagesandmarmelade · 16/05/2011 06:56

I love the way posters bring in all these others things to back up what they are saying....this thread is not about car fumes, exhausts, pollution, breast feeding etc (happy to talk about those another time) but mothers who smoke in pregnancy.

I guess you COULD split the argument like this...

There are those who feel passionately that the unborn child is completely vulnerable and entirely dependent on it's mothers choices for health and life. These people cannot understand why a mother would knowingly choose to smoke throughout her pregnancy knowing the risks to the child (which are well documented now).

And there are others who feel that the mothers needs, desires and wants are paramount....and that no one has the right to say otherwise

There are others in-between who DO CARE about their unborn babies health but are addicted to smoking. Better to have given up BEFORE getting pregnant...because the child deserves the best.

TheBlindAssassin · 16/05/2011 07:37

My long post was in response to someone else bringing up the "fact" that cigarettes are more dangerous than car exhaust. I simply don't like to see blatant misinformation bandied about.

You may be happy to talk about that another time, but others felt the need to talk about it now in this context. In my opinion, it IS relevant - I make a personal choice not to own a car or drive because I know the physical effects such things have on our health, because I truly believe we need to reduce the number of cars on the road and, most importantly, because I CAN [personally] make that choice. I also make a choice NOT to smoke for the same reasons. I have smoked a total of 2 cigarettes in my entire life - I tried them at the age of 10 and found that they tasted repulsive to me and never felt the need to touch them again. I had a mother who smoked whilst I was growing up (so I guess you could argue that I've smoked more than 2 cigarettes ....) but she was the best mother I could have asked for.

This thread, at the heart of it, is about what you consider as doing the best for your children's health and well-being. So many people raise their children differently;
Some breastfeed
Others don't
Some parents smoke whilst pregnant
Others don't
Some physically smack their children as a form of discipline
Others don't
Some play emotional games with their children's mental well-being as a form of discipline
Others don't
Some parents educate their children privately
Others don't
Some choose not to use a buggy to protect their children from ever closer proximity to car fumes
Others don't
Some raise their children as vegetarians
Others don't
...

At the end of the day, all the choices above are LEGAL choices a parent can make. So criticise as much as you want, judge as much as you want - at the end of the day, you will more often than not directly or indirectly benefit from the choices others make whether or not you agree with their actions.

As for the smoking point, it is EXTREMELY easy to narrowly seize on one section of society and target their actions vehemently without taking the time to step back and see the wider picture. millie30's post hit the nail on the head. People on here who refuse to criticise or judge mothers who smoke whilst pregnant are said to do so to justify their own guilt - and I'm sure some do. However, what you don't realise is that by saying that they should not be allowed to, you are advocating a system where women's bodies are legislated over in a way that men's bodies aren't (especially when it is perfectly legal for men to smoke) - that is a very scary prospect. Where do you stop - at what point in the gestational period should a woman not be allowed to smoke? In the later months of pregnancy? Earlier months? At the embryonic stage? At the moment of implantation of the egg? At the moment of fertilisation of the egg? What about those intending on getting pregnant? What about those who do not intend to get pregnant but do so and are unaware for several weeks? What about just the fact that a woman is able to get pregnant? Should their fertility be tested from puberty to enforce this?

Why aren't we talking about intending/unintending fathers? After all, sperm quality is said to be affected by smoking. Are they irresponsible as well? If so, at what stage? Before they intend to become fathers? Once they intend to become fathers? At the moment they get their partner pregnant?

What about the general public? If pregnant women and unborn children should not be subjected to cigarette smoke, should anyone be allowed to smoke in public given the chance that they may come into close contact with a woman who is pregnant (and may or may not know it)? Are they being irresponsible by smoking?

If so, what about all the other things that are known to cause unborn children harm in the womb? Like - hmm, I don't know - dangerous particulates and carcinogens in the air, regardless of the source? Should those also be policed as thoroughly?

I'm now harping from a soapbox so I will step off. This is just my tuppence on the matter. I judge about a lot of things, but so long as a person's actions are perfectly legal, I either respect their right to carry on or I try and do something personally to change it (it's just that that doesn't involve villifying them to the exclusion of what other good they do in their lives).

hairfullofsnakes · 16/05/2011 08:06

Exactly sausages, I gave up before getting pregnant for that reason

I'll never cease to be amazed at how some women try to justify smoking when pg

It can never be justified

millie30 · 16/05/2011 08:23

People aren't justifying it haifullofsnakes, it has been widely acknowledged on this thread that it carries a risk and nobody has said that it's a good idea.

But the point remains that you cannot do anything other than give women the right information and support. What is the alternative? What would you like to see? I find it incredibly uncomfortable to hear pregnant women's bodies discussed as if they are public property, that women should no longer have autonomy over, that every stranger in the street now has the right to an opinion or judgement on.

Good for you that you gave up smoking before you became pregnant, you made an informed choice. Why not allow other women to do the same?

hairfullofsnakes · 16/05/2011 13:35

I gave up smoking when I wanted to try for a baby because it is utterly wrong to inflict it on a baby who would have had no choice but to breathe in the poison and quite frankly I would have felt totally ashamed to have had to explain to my kids that I let my totally selfish need for a fag overide their health despite knowing the risks.

And people are trying to justify it and it is never justified to smoke when preg - it is selfish and wrong however much some people protest

HalfTermHero · 16/05/2011 14:09

Yanbu. The saddest thing that I'd ever seen was smokers outside the hospital doors. Someone turn me around......

sofaqueenie · 16/05/2011 14:21

I have just found out I'm pregnant with my second child (got my BFP on Saturday) and I have found it so, so hard to stop. I didn't smoke all weekend, and caved in today and had one a few hours ago.

I'm sat here in tears because I know it's wrong, but I don't know how to deal with the cravings and feeling of utter stress.

I stopped right away when I found out I was expecting DS, and seemed to have no problem with it.

aliceliddell · 16/05/2011 14:32

Is there a thread about pregnant women and litter trays or soft cheese?