Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to wonder why Katie Hopkins had three children?

215 replies

ShuffleBallChange · 05/05/2011 19:34

She went back to work three weeks after having her babies and thinks all women should. I was still bleeding heavily and surviving on about three hours sleep a night then!!!!!!

OP posts:
hairylights · 07/05/2011 13:54

alpine Actually, I was quoting but forgot to put the quote marks in! Read back and you will see. My Biscuit was in response to that statement from nullius

frgaaah · 07/05/2011 13:57

Exactly, hairylights. I don't always agree with everything you write. But has anyone ever heard this statement said?

"I didn't see the point of men having children and working."

Your friend's condemnation of women, does it extend to members of society with a penis, or just those without? Wink

I don't actually care too much about arguing re: work at home mums vs. stay at home mums. What I have a very real, strong problem with is the link between women and their children's wellbeing, whilst men are spared any such investigation.

hairylights · 07/05/2011 14:01

"I don't actually care too much about arguing re: work at home mums vs. stay at home mums. What I have a very real, strong problem with is the link between women and their children's wellbeing, whilst men are spared any such investigation."

Ditto.

AlpinePony · 07/05/2011 14:02

Sorry hairy. (Blush)

In that case I will direct my sarcasm elsewhere.

hairylights · 07/05/2011 14:06

Lol alpine it was my lack of quote marks that was at fault.

LynetteScavo · 07/05/2011 14:12

It's all about choice, isn't it? Or it should be. I would have been ill if I'd had to leave DS1 and gone out to work. My sister would have gone insane and been a crap mum (so she tells me)if she couldn't have gone back to work. There is no one right solution for every parent, but that doesn't mean women shouldn't be entitled to take a decent amount of maternity leave on a decent level of pay (Three years would be nice IMO, but that might be pushing it a bit).

NulliusInVerba · 07/05/2011 14:25

frgaaah if you read back through my posts you will see that I did adress that issue, I dont believe men should be let off the hook, and I do think they should be pulled up on their lack of childrearing.

But if you agree that the fathers going out and not looking after their children is wrong or "misogynistic", why then, would women doing the same be helpful?
So we should punish the children because we want to make a point about men?
Im also happy that women now have a choice. And as for the comments about her not having a clue, I stcik by it. How dare she call SAHM lazy when she has never had to look after a child 24 hours a day. Its very different when you are responsible for all the childcare, all the housework, the finaces and everything else like I am, to having a mother silly enough to raise your children for you after raising you aswell, a cleaner and a nanny. Very different. And certainly not lazy.

TheCrackFox · 07/05/2011 14:27

My mum was far to busy concentrating on her career to look after my children for me. I wonder how she views her own mother and why her mum just doesn't tell her to cock off.

NulliusInVerba · 07/05/2011 14:29

Oh and I agree with your point regarding flexi time, and sharing the work parenting.

But being a "good provider" is not all a child needs. Given the choice between more money or time with their parents children will pick parents.

peppapighastakenovermylife · 07/05/2011 14:35

Choice between more money or time with their parents?

There seems to be this bizarre assumption that if a woman dares work that she is doing it to provide the family with expensive holidays, cars and games consoles. Heaven forbid that she is actually the main wage earner, has the steadiest job or you know, her money actually pays for things like the mortgage or food Hmm

I just asked DS1 (nearly 5 years old) whether he would prefer I went to work and we still ate or whether I stopped working and spent all my time with him but we wouldnt be able to afford nice things.

His response?

If you like mummy I will go to after school club every day then you can work more and buy me more chocolate and stickers Grin

Poor child is clearly traumatised

peppapighastakenovermylife · 07/05/2011 14:37

Oh and frgaaah - well said! Why are men exempt from these arguments?

My DH went for a job interview recently and it was seen as a very good thing that he had young children as he was seen to be more responsible and would work hard.

Wonder if women receive that same respect?

KittySpencer · 07/05/2011 14:51

peppapig - my DSs were exactly the same, they associated me working with being able to have fun at their ChildMinders and getting treats.

DS2 at one stage had several of his friends (who all have a SAHM/D) begging their parents to be allowed to go to a CM so they could do all the fun stuff he did :)

Getting credit for working and having children definitely only goes one way in the workplace - there's a very good line in I Don't Know How She Does It (one of my favourite books btw) something like - when a man asks to leave work early to go to his DC swimming gala/sports day etc he's treated like a hero, but when a woman asks the same thing it's seen as an inconvenience......

MrsSchadenfreude · 07/05/2011 14:56

Peppapig - I've always found that the sentiment in the workplace is:

"It's lovely to see a really hands-on Dad." And

"Working mothers are a pain in the arse."

Sad

Kitty is spot on. I used to work with someone whose daughter was in the same class as mine. He was allowed to "slip out for a few hours" to see her school play, but I had to take half a day's leave (even though I was only out of the office for a couple of hours).

NulliusInVerba · 07/05/2011 15:00

peppa if you actually read my posts you will see I was refering to if BOTH parents worked.

If mother works and dad does childcare, great.

In reality that doesnt always happen, so should mom and dad work full time just to proove a point to men that we can do it too?
How silly to ask a five year old that. "If i went to work and we still ate"
Yes because if both parents didnt work full time, you would all starve to death. How on earth do SAHM or single parents eat I wonder Hmm

MrsSchadenfreude · 07/05/2011 15:04

SAHMs obviously married to Big Wage Earner.
Single Parents on "benifits" (as it is almost always called on here).

That was flippant, by the way.

By juggling, I would imagine. And single parents juggle pretty damn hard and are amazing, from what I have seen.

hairylights · 07/05/2011 15:04

"But being a "good provider" is not all a child needs. Given the choice between more money or time with their parents children will pick parents."

Source?

NormanTebbit · 07/05/2011 15:09

Null
I am a motherof three currently considering work options. I need (and want)to go back when youngest is 3 because I want a career and we need the money. We need a bigger house ( all 3 share a room) DP is grey and stressed a being sole provider and our expenses are only going to increase.

It's not just about eating, it's about activities, school trips, uni tuition fees. My wage willmnot be paying for holidays and designer clothing

emy72 · 07/05/2011 15:12

SAHM or working is a personal choice.

I think anyone who opposes it vehemently and publically should be very aware that their own circumstances could change dramatically and they are suddenly forced to be in the opposite situation, living the life they so publically opposed on moral grounds.

I have seen this happen many times in RL...

pickyourbrain · 07/05/2011 15:14

Yes indeed, source please? and to what age of child are you referring?

First of all, the outrage about katie's choice is that she left her 3 week old babies... who wouldnt have understood the concept until at least 4 years old. Secondly, even if children would say they would rather spend time with their parents than have their parents at work - what do they know?! They don't realise until quite a bit older the things that are acheived by both parents working. And isnt Katie a single mum?! What is the alternative to her working?

My dsd (12) has said to me of her mother "when I was little I was really pleased my mum didnt work because we could play together, but now she's on her own and has no money I wish she had just gone to work because I wouldnt have known any different and now she wouldnt be sad and poor" Sad

hairylights · 07/05/2011 15:15

You aseem null to be making a couple of generalisations

That any mum who goes out to work only does so to "prove a point" or because she "needs" to or out of pure pursuit of money that the family doesn't need.

Can you explain what exactly is wrong with both parents working full time, if they both want to, ignoring what their reasons
For wanting to are? If the children are well cared for, looked after and have time with their parents?

purepurple · 07/05/2011 15:25

I find all this debate very interesting and am thinking about doing something along the lines of the pressure on family life and how it affects children for my dissertation. Many parents don't have any choice about working and many parents feel guilty about the choices they do make and worry about how it affects their children. i am interested in how we can make children more resilient.
Personally, I enjoyed being a SAHM and would love to be able to give up work now, even though my children are older, but we have a motgage to pay.
It's all a balancing act but I wholeheartedly agree with the saying that you should work to live not live to work.

NulliusInVerba · 07/05/2011 15:27

The source is ME actually, as a child. And plenty of other children. FGS really why do you think we give birth to children, and they are not fully formed? We are not crocodiles they cant go off and fend for themselves straight after birth, somebody needs to look after them!!

NormanTebbit - I have no issue whatsoever with what you are saying and doing. I am not critsising you as a mother, I myself have no intention of staying at home throughout my DC's entire childhood. please can people read what ive said in previous posts.

And as for bloody childminders and children begging to go there, ha really?
When I was a child, other kids on the playground used to say to me "where is your mommy, why is she never here"
And the epic "doesnt your mommy love you".

pickyourbrain · 07/05/2011 15:35

purepurple I would be fascinated to read a dissertation on this as I have never read any evidence to say that children are affected in general by working or non working mums.. other than the drivel in the mail etc

nulls with respect using yourself isn't really going to convince anyone I'm afriad. We all have an idea based on our own experiences as children but I certainly never thought I wished my mum didnt work...

somebody does look after them. It may just not be the mum for 10 hours of the day. We dont leave them in a bush until we return from work. You have said you have no issue with working mums but I feel that you actually do. At least be honest.

Im sorry you had the experience in the playground that you talk of. But you can't have been the only child. No one would say that to my child in the playground because hardly any of their mums are there. In fact when I changed my job and dd was about 6 she looked at me worridly and said " I can still go to childmindersname after school can't I?!"

gkys · 07/05/2011 15:37

never heard of her,, sounds odd though, but each to their own i guess.

pickyourbrain · 07/05/2011 15:37

In fact I beleive that nulls you think yoyur children are happier than those of working mothers and will turn out better and more content in some way. I would get rid of that idea right now if I were you as I know a lot of people with grown up kids and there are miserable off the rails vile teenagers as well as delightful ones and there is no correllation regards whether their mum worked or not.

Fair enough if you feel being SAHM works for you, but dont expect your children to be any happier.

Swipe left for the next trending thread