or is my sister?

[drowninginlaundry]

just trying to do the right thing here so help me out:
over the Easter break me and DH went away for 10 days on a charity expedition. My sister, her DH and their two DDs stayed in our house with my mum to look after our three DCs. She volunteered to do this, it was agreed ages ago and it was the only way we could have done it.

We've just had a horrible row over money. We left a float of £300 when we left, my bank card with PIN with instructions that if they needed more for food, outings with the children etc they were to use it. We left them our car, insure them on it. Arranged and paid for cleaners.

When we got back I saw that DSis and brother in law have withdrawn another £700 in cash in 10 days, plus spent £250 on my card, so in total they spent £1250 from our account in 10 days, to feed three adults, four children and one 9-month old baby.

There's history - I help my sister out a lot. When they lived abroad they would visit us on holidays and rarely paid for anything, they drove my car and I filled it with petrol, we always fed them well. She owes me money and I had agreed to waive a £200 debt as a thank you for childcare over Easter.

When I queried the £1250, which as it transpired included things like pub lunches for everyone and filling her car with petrol, she blew her top, and said that since she helped look after my children they should not have had to pay for anything.

I'm happy to contribute for some of their food and obviously they have done us a massive favour, but there is no way I would manage to spend that much in 10 days without going completely nuts in Tesco champagne section. I want her to pay some of her family's share back as we simply can't afford to pick up that kind of tab (put it this way, they don't spend like that when it's their own money. They are both teachers so good jobs but not loaded), but I don't know how much would be reasonable given how much they helped us. And I don't want us to fall out over this.

[anonacfr]

Forgot to ask what did you DH say about this?

And I would kindly tell her that the least she could do would be to pay back the 200 pounds she owes. If she considers herself employed as childcare (as opposed to doing you a favour like she volunteered) then the debt should be back on.

[Balsam]

But Cornettos, why should the OP pay for everyone's food? Surely she should only cover what her kids are costing her sister on top of her usual expenses for her family.

I'd send an email as suggested upthread and if she didn't pay it back, I'd cut her off for good. Unforgivable.

[Onetoomanycornettos]

Yes, I agree, she treated this as a holiday, and took the three extra children out with her for meals, days out and so on. However, having five children is no mean feat, so despite the fact I think she is taking the piss money-wise, I think things like pursuing her in the small claims court are over-reacting in the extreme. It wasn't clarified before the OP left, she didn't specify a top limit or a division of money or that she should budget carefully and is now paying the price, I personally doubt it is worth losing a sister who is prepared to look after your three children for ten days over, but obviously she should never ever lend her her bank card again.

[heliumballoons]

YANBU, I'd tell your 'd'sis that the £200 was to cover childcare, plus the food which is another £100ish for her family. Thats £300 more than most people would pay 'family' to babsit their children.

I can see how they spent more than the £300 you left if they did days out. It would cost about £100 entrance for that many people. But I don't agree that children need icecream/ sweets etc everyday.

op had you said you pay for your sis and bil part of days out or have they just decided you would?

[aurynne]

I would have left them the amount I thought was reasonable, plus a bit more for their help, and told them that for any unexpected expense, or emergency, they could use their own credit card, and I would reimburse it to them on my return upon presentation of receipt. I would never, ever, leave anyone (not even my own mother) with my credit card and pin number. Not because I distrust them, but because I wouldn't want to be responsible in case they misplaced the pin number, were subjected to fraud, or anything else happened.

In your case I'd more than probably write the debt off and not pursue the subject in order to keep the family peace. However, this would mean I would have completely lost the trust on my sister, and I could never see her in the same light. I would let her know this and expect her to offer some of the money back on her own accord. But hey, it is easy to say when I have an absolutely fabulous sister. I couldn't in my worst nightmare imagine her being dishonest or taking advantage of anyone.

I agree with other posts that this was not a holiday of pleasure for your sister and BIL. This was a family favour. In your sister's shoes, I would have tried to spend the minimum and use my own money for my own family's expenses. Any extra expense I had incurred in would be explained, and a proof of receipt shown.

YANBU

[Clytaemnestra]

I would write the money off, then I would write you sister and BIL off right along with it. They've pocketed some of your cash, and lived the high life with the rest of it. They have no respect whatsoever for you.

[atswimtwolengths]

If the OP's sister bought ice-creams for everyone, why should the OP have to pay for that? Surely the money was just for the OP's children, not for all of the adults?

I read it that the £200 the sister owed was for the inconvenience of babysitting. After that, shouldn't the sister have paid for her own family herself and then dipped into the £300 for the OP's children's food, drinks, ice creams etc?

I still can't get over the BIL wearing the husband's clothes! Surely there was a washing machine if he ran out.

Tell me, OP, are you and your sister different sizes? Is this the reason she wasn't wearing your clothes?

[springbokdoc]

Jeez that it a shedload of money! At that rate, parents of five dc would spend 5 grand a month .

I can't even begin to understand how a family member would do this - it's just a huge amount of money. I would totally leave my card for my sister if she were looking after my dc and wouldn't mind if she went out and treated her children and mine but to spend more in one week that most people earn in a month is just so... cruel.

[Pancakeflipper]

Cor - your sister and BIL seized the opportunity with your bank card didn't they?

I think they are meanies taking the piss. Their wallet/purse must have been a little fat on departure. But that probably won't get your dosh back.

What does your mother say?

[drowninginlaundry]

Thanks for all your replies, no I didn't tell them that they should help themselves to anything they liked, they just assumed they could. I think the reason we left my card with them was because they are so crap with money, and often skint (despite having a regular income), that I didn't want there to be a situation where they didn't have enough money to buy food for my children. Obviously I didn't expect her to go to town with it.

The thing is, I love them both to bits. And my nieces. I have asked her to pay back £500 of the £1250, and waive the £200 debt, and she said she would but the way she said it I am not sure when I am going to see them again. Really sad for my DC (they are 7, 4 and 2 yrs as someone asked) as they love spending time with them.

[WinkyWinkola]

Well, that isn't your fault. It is your sisters for being so cavalier and dishonest.

[bustersmummy]

I am at your sister.

I'd make her pay back the £500 AND the £200 your waived.

She has totally taken the piss.

[LoveBeingAbleToNamechange]

Op I understand why you have said that, however you are just reinforcing again that she can mess up and you'll be soft and bail her out.

[DuelingFanjo]

what did happen in the end? LBATNC, what bit of the op did you understand?

[gkys]

a childminder would have charged somewhere in the reigion of 100 pounds per day, I think she thought what she was doing was reasonable, I however disagree with her, she took total advantage, I am available to have the dc anytime you need .....at the same rate obviously

I would ask for some money back, doubt you will gett it but ask anyway

[Morloth]

Ouch, that is an expensive lesson. Make sure you have learned it.

People don't do stuff like that to the people they care about, so while you may love them to bits I think they have made it pretty clear the feeling is not reciprocated.

[WobblyWidgetOnTheScooper]

Any update OP?

[BranchingOut]

Horrible situation. :(

I think we musn't underestimate this wasn't a holiday for them in the first place: you never feel as comfortable in someone else's house as you might do in a neutral holiday let and if you teach in a school then looking after other people's children is not that much fun. So I think that they must have treated themselves in order to make it into a bit more of a holiday.

In some ways I do agree that your original budget was a bit tight and maybe the answer would have been to leave more money with your mum, or ask your sister for receipts for any extra expenses. I also think that the budget should have covered basic food, groceries and outings for your sister's family,

However, because they are bad with money I imagine that they just didn't think, hence the defensive attitude now. Having desert, buying expensive fruit, ready meals, that extra starter in a restaurant, taking the expensive drink or treat - they just got carried away and lived as if money were free for a week. Plus a bit of 'because I'm worth it' as they were looking after your children.

The more suspicious side of me wonders if they went away with a boot full of food, children's clothing from the supermarket, stationery, plus as many sanitary products and shampoos as could be carried without adversely affecting the suspension of their car...

[SnuffleTurtle153]

I can't understand why some ppl are arguing that £1250 is a reasonable amount for her to have spent... It's a complete piss take and anyone who thinks it's not would presumably behave in the same way if they were the ones looking after their sister's children. YADNBU OP and I hope she pays you the £500 soon as.

[springydaffs]

I think the BIL wearing your DH's clothes says it all. no boundaries, whatsoever. She also will have had access to your balance if she had your card. Though tbh it sounds like money runs through her/their fingers (if you want to put a half-decent slant on it) though the most likely explanation is that she/they had a lavish 10 days and probably enjoyed not having the usual financial constraints. Perhaps she wasn't being actively disrespectful iyswim, though definitely passively disrespectful.

As you say, you have learned your lesson, a very painful lesson. I don't think you should fall out with her over this - it is not worth it to split the family - but you know what you can and can't do in future.

If it makes you feel any better, what you did is precisely what I would have done with family, and expected them to treat me, my money, my clothes, my trust with respect. She isn't capable of that but you know that now.

Very upsetting for you.

[ZenNudist]

Look you need to be stronger here, you sound like a nice person and your sister has stolen from you. She needs to suffer the consequences. You have given & given and now it has to stop. If she tries the argument that you got 'free' child care, you should retort that it clearly wasn't free and if she was so resentful of providing it she should not have offered. If she doesn't pay you back £500 SOON then stop contact, don't speak to her again. It's not a shame it's necessary. They could have benefitted from your love & generosity for years, instead they bit the hand that fed them! Your comments about your sister's past form for leeching off you seem relevant. This is not a simple misunderstanding but indicates her general attitude for treating you like a mug. This is just the first time they had the opportunity to really get something out of you. If you don't take a stand it will still fester in your history but she will be able to think you were being unreasonable, you aren't. Get angry!

[tigermummy35]

YANBU - Your sister is totally taking the piss.

I would expect them to eat the food already in the house, then buy some more if needed, to start with anyway. I would also have expected your sister and husband to pay for outings for themselves and use your money to pay for your kids. After all, they would be going to the zoo etc anyway, why should you pay for her kids!

It sounds like you've been totally fleeced by them. A hard lesson learned. I'd try and get some of the money back and start by stopping all presents for them at birthdays/christmas etc.

[nowadoubledee]

The other side is to consider how much you would have had to pay a nanny to take care of 3 kids for 10 days 24 hours a day. You would also have to pay for food/trips on top. If you look at it that way it's not so unfair. She may have offered, but in your mind that seems to be negate the effort is takes to look after 3 kids.

[Scholes34]

You can't put a price on something that a family member or friend does for you and compare it to what a 24/7 nanny would cost. It would always be extortionate.

Anyway, I would have looked after your family for half the amount they spent and still been in the black. Should have called me first.

[Grabaspoon]

Wonder how relations are now?