or is my sister?

[drowninginlaundry]

just trying to do the right thing here so help me out:
over the Easter break me and DH went away for 10 days on a charity expedition. My sister, her DH and their two DDs stayed in our house with my mum to look after our three DCs. She volunteered to do this, it was agreed ages ago and it was the only way we could have done it.

We've just had a horrible row over money. We left a float of £300 when we left, my bank card with PIN with instructions that if they needed more for food, outings with the children etc they were to use it. We left them our car, insure them on it. Arranged and paid for cleaners.

When we got back I saw that DSis and brother in law have withdrawn another £700 in cash in 10 days, plus spent £250 on my card, so in total they spent £1250 from our account in 10 days, to feed three adults, four children and one 9-month old baby.

There's history - I help my sister out a lot. When they lived abroad they would visit us on holidays and rarely paid for anything, they drove my car and I filled it with petrol, we always fed them well. She owes me money and I had agreed to waive a £200 debt as a thank you for childcare over Easter.

When I queried the £1250, which as it transpired included things like pub lunches for everyone and filling her car with petrol, she blew her top, and said that since she helped look after my children they should not have had to pay for anything.

I'm happy to contribute for some of their food and obviously they have done us a massive favour, but there is no way I would manage to spend that much in 10 days without going completely nuts in Tesco champagne section. I want her to pay some of her family's share back as we simply can't afford to pick up that kind of tab (put it this way, they don't spend like that when it's their own money. They are both teachers so good jobs but not loaded), but I don't know how much would be reasonable given how much they helped us. And I don't want us to fall out over this.

YANBU. This is definitely taking the piss, big time. Those of you saying its cheap childcare are missing the point the whole reason for getting family involved is to avoid paying childcare. Yes you should probably have agreed an upper limit for card spending but how were you supposed to know they were going to go bananas. I think its theft and I don't think you should swallow the debt I think you should fight them tooth and nail how else are they supposed to learn?

Are you able to say that under the circumstances, you can neither afford to, nor are you prepared to write off the £200 they owe you? It does sound like they have treated their 10 days like their annual family holiday, with outings and meals out being enjoyed without any thought as to the cost of them whatsoever.

So your sister, her husband and her all her children had a free holiday on the back of your hard earned cash? What a fucking cheek

And she had the brass neck to assume you'll write off the debt she owes you too!

More front than Blackpool.

I'd have 'un-sistered' her for half that.

Well, if her husband was helping himself to your husband's clothes, (eeuh!), they obviously sense a feeling of entitlement, and so felt "entitled" to your money as well.....

What a terribly selfish pair! You have been kind enough to already cancel a debt, and that is how they repay you? She should be ashamed of herself instead of storming out making out it is all your fault!

Firstly, have you changed your pin number yet? I do think you were naive to leave her such free access to your account, you should not tell anyone your pin number.

Sounds like theyve had a rather lavish holiday at your expense, and with free accomodation!

That her DH was wearing your DHs clothes implies that they think nothing of stealing your things. I would be much more reserved with them in future.

But do ask for similar lavish expenses if you look after her DCs, and her bank details too.

Nobody seems to have picked up on the point that your trip was a charity expedition, so it wasn't just a jolly. You asked family to help out with childcare as that was the only way you could afford it. This makes your sisters behaviour even worse.

I am shocked!!
I appreciate that you left money and the option to withdraw money, but I cant believe they effectively decided to go for pub lunches and out every day.
When DH and I are off work with DD during the hols, we don't splash the cash every day, there will be days where things are fairly cheap and we may have two expensive days out for outings etc, because everything is expensive.
Did they ever stop to think that the money in your bank account was for bills, and at some point they could be leaving you overdrawn or in issues of potential bills bouncing? I tend to have a joint account for all my bills, and I would be flabbergasted if my sisters took that much money from my account, and a little screwed in terms of bills tbh!
I would ask your sister for some of the funds back. Yes, she was looking after YOUR children, but why should you have to pay for HER AND HER CHILDREN? I would only ever expect to pay money over for the looking after of my children (if my family wanted money for doing so, which they wouldn't, but that is beside the point). It sounds like your sister and her family have had a lovely holiday on your dosh.

YANBU

Total pisstake, also im at some posters who think that was a reasonable amount to spend in 10 days.

Oh my fucking god.

Is this real?

On no level is this acceptable behaviour from
your sister. IMO she has stolen from you.

If my sister did this I doubt I would speak to her again.

Can you invoice for all the favours you have ever done her?

Don't let her get away with this.

My family would not dream of doing that! Family should do anything for other family through love not money!
I can understand you being upset

OMG, that's dreadful!

Are there 'issues' between you over money already? Do you/DH earn £100k a year and she earns £15k and thinks you can easily afford a big wedge of cash as she's doing you a favour? I'm not saying that's in any way acceptable, I'm just trying to work out how on earth she thinks you won't be bothered? From the comment she made to your mum, it sounds like she really wants her moneys worth!

You're probably not going to get it back now. I would send her an email saying you'd never imagined in a million years she would take it upon herself to assume you would be happy paying for her whole family to live in the lap of luxury for 10 days at someone else's expense. I would say you are very concerned about your next mortgage payment as that is a massive amount to be short by. I would also ask when they were going to return your husband's clothes!

Never ever ask them for a favour again!

It may or may not be a reasonable amount to spend. I know if I was on holiday with 4 DC's and 3 adults it wouldn't be a huge amount.
However the point is that she clearly expected to be paid in kind for her childcare.
I don't think you can leave it as it is but agree with a pp that you should email her and say something along the lines of.......
We were very grateful when you were able to come to the house to look after XY and Z. Of course we have all provided childcare for each other in the past but dh and I were thrilled to be able to leave them with you for our much needed holiday.
To ensure things were are easy for you as possible we did xy and z and left you £300.00 to cover any incidentals that may have been required. In case this was not enough I also left you my bank card and details to enable you to obtain a little more.
I was extremely disappointed to come home to find that you had taken so much extra money from my account and seem unable to provide me with receipts to show where the money has been spent.
From speaking to Mum I understand that you felt it was your right to have everything paid for by DH and I but this was not what was agreed between us.

I am not in a position to lose this money on top of the £200 I had lent you previously.

You could finish by asking her to explain further where the money has been spent or by asking her to repay some of this extra money.

Good luck - as they say you can chose your friends..............

This is absolutely disgusting, I can not believe the nerve of your Dsis and BIL.

Agree with the others, don't think you will voluntarily see the money again as she obviously thought she had a right to it - but by using your card, even with your authority, isn't that fraud?

Not sure but might be a lever to help get your money back, obviously if you are absolutely sure that the relationship if over.

I for one would not be able to forgive and forget, its not the money its the principal that she could take the piss like that.

I would have left them £500 and thats it. i would have taken the card with me. If they ran out of money then id have said i would ahve reinbursed her if she provided reciepts and only if i d have seen fit to refund her. Defo took the piss out of you. How do you know they haven't taken money out to pocket themselves.

Stoppingat3, that's a very restrained and well written email you've suggested.

Op, why not give it a try? Post her response on MN!

I would definitely keep my distance from this chancer, that's for sure. She'd sell her own granny!

And ask your mum what on earth was going on? Packed lunches for a day out don't cost £120 per day. Cobblers. It's indefensible.

Get a nanny next time. You'll spend the same and at least you'll know exactly where you stand. You can't blur boundaries with people who take advantage.

Drowninginlaundry - I'm afraid your sister and BiL have stolen from you, pure and simple. This isnt simply a case of falling out, if a member of my family did such a thing to me I would completely cut them out of my life, to me they would cease to exist. In your position I would explain this to my mother and never mention them again.

I dont think you will ever see your money again. In your position I would send them a letter explaining that in your opinion their behaviour has been disgraceful and that you want no contact with them at all.

I am horrified as to how she could spend so much in such a short time. Really it would have been a challenge..

I would email asking for a detailed breakdown of where and what they have done on days out, to "try to understand what has happened..."

I am extremely suspicious of the fact that most of the money has gone in cash, and I think the fact that the D???BIL was in you DH's clothes when you came home, screams a sense of entitlement to me. I think the money has gone now where near caring for your or even their kids but towards something completely unrelated.

I think a MUCH MUCH longer chat with you dm is in order.

And I would be keeping a paper trail from this point on with email communication.

How awful. I find it shocking that your sis and her dh are teachers, teachers shouldn't be thieving!

OP, your sister has got previous. What the hell were you thinking?

agree with GnomeDePlume i cant believe that they stole from you - thats what it is, taking money for reasonable expenses fair enough but that amount is crazy! Most family members would enjoy spending time with their kids. Thats theft pure and simple and i would NEVER speak to them again - even if they paid up its a massive abuse of trust.

I cannot believe that anyone would think that a reasonable amount to spend in the circumstances.

In the same situation (if I were looking after my sister's DC in her home) I would do all I could to avoid even going over the £300 and if I decided we should all go out for a meal, I would feel that as that was my decision, I should pay for everyone, my sisr's DC included. I would also expect to pay for at least ourselves on any Zoo or other trips, although I can see it would be different if you have a season/membership card. It would also be nice for me to see, spend time with and get a chance to spoil my niece and nephew and even if I was asked to do it and hadn't volunteered, I wouldn't see it as a huge favour, just something family would do for each other if they could.

YANBU - I cannot believe your sister took that amount of money from you and that your mother didn't do anything to stop her/control her spending - even if they were doing you a favour.

I don't think you have a legal standing WRT the money being stolen, but you might be able make an application to the small claims court to get some of it back (she may genuinely have spent it all and have no means of paying you back).

What a horrible thing to do to a family member (the sisters actions not yours OP).

I do think this is awful, but the 300 pounds wasn't realistic for ten days for eight (seven if you discount the baby) either and therein lies the problem. As someone else said, for everyone to have an ice-cream every day (which I do on my hols) would have been 100 pounds alone, plus driving two cars everywhere for 10 days would be another 150 or so. You'd only need two or three meals out in ten days to clock up another 150. Eight people is twice as many as four (sounds obvious!). I would find it hard to spend 1250 over this time, but certainly 300 is far too little for that many people over a holiday time unless they were budgeting (and so weren't having the ice-creams/days out/using the car lots). She may also have paid out for meals out/takeaways/M & S food as cooking for eight is a lot and she didn't feel like it on what she perceived were her holidays.

She basicallys spent as if she was on her two week holiday abroad, but living in your house with your money. Not nice, but I can kind of see it from her perspective as well.

OMG! That is basically our monthly income now I'm not working, and that pays for our, rent, bills, food. leisure - EVERYTHING! How could she have spent that in 10 days????

Unbelievable.

The thing is the OP's sister wasn't on holidays, she volunteered to help and her mother was there as well to help entertain the children.
They had a car insured for them, cleaners, food in the fridge and a 200 pounds debt waive. Not to mention of course the house to stay in.

I can't believe anyone would do that without checking. Even if 300 wasn't enough, an extra grand?? It's way too much and from what the OP mentioned her mother knew it and tried to stop it.

And let's not forget the BIL wearing the OP's DH clothes, the sister filling her own car etc Sounds like they were freeloading like crazy.