To think my parents have been very out of order and why

[MrsMcgee]

First post so please be gentle with me. This actually happened a couple of weeks ago now but having seen the great advice others have had I wondered if you would help me.

So there is the main issue and the history around it - I'll start with the actual issue.
We are getting married in July and all of our parents have offered to contribute a bit which we are very grateful for. My dp's dad offered to pay for the venue so before we booked anything we sat down with him and tried to go through the venue we liked and exactly what it would cost. We were very clear that it was entirely up to him and we could find somewhere cheaper ( we hadn't picked an expensive place though, it's q cheap). He wouldnt look
With us and just said "oh if that's how much it is then I'll just pay".

Because they were contributing our parents all had a say in the guest list and we were quite happy with this - it certainly wasn't grudging.

So a few months later - we have paid deposits and signed contracts etc. Dps dad starts asking how much it is - we repeated the figures again. He starts asking if there will be a meat option for the meal. We said we didnt know and were thinking about it. We are vegetarian and dp is very put off by smell / sight of meat. But we were GENUINELY thinking about it. A large proportion of our friends are veggy also and at the very least happy to have 1 vegetarian meal. The only people who aren't are the people who his dad has invited!

Cue massive argument where he says if we don't have a meat option then he is not paying or coming to the wedding. We were very reasonable at first and tried to discuss why they felt so strongly we should have meat. (I should add that my mum and dp's dad got together last year) we were told we were being childish and needed to come back to reality- and that we should have intellectual arguments in Oxford but not with them as it was irrelevant. (!)

We were quite upset at this Point so went up to bed and decided to leave in the morning (we had been visiting them)

They are very very controlling - never quite come to terms with us moving out. Last year we decided to take in a lodger and they flipped and told us we "couldn't" and shouted at us a lot telling us how stupid we were being as they could move out and leave us high and dry financially. We needed to move and wanted to stay in the same area and couldnt afford not to essentially. They told us we should move out of the area as beggars can't be choosers!

Lots of other on incidents along these lines in the past. So are we being reasonable? A) in not having a meat option at Our wedding and more importantly b) to tell them they are being controlling and their behaviour needs to change. It is our wedding and whilst we are happy to listen to their advice / opinions - the decision lies with us.

Sorry I'm a bit confused. We said right at the start (a year ago now) that we wanted it all veggie. Then he asked a couple of weeks ago if there would be meat and how he really wanted it etc etc. We said we didnt really realise he felt that strongly about it and would have a think. Were visiting them for the weekend, next thing is on Sunday big argument as he says we aren't really thinking about it and we MUST have a meat option. To be honest it wasn't totally set in stone for us whilst it was a strong preference. Though we hadnt said that. What Im annoyed about is the way they went about it, and yes if it was that big an issue for him then I think he should have said at the outset.

I don't think you're being at all unreasonable, but your DP's dad is being an idiot. What's the big deal about going without meat for a meal? What a storm in a teacup.

We have friends, one of the couple is vegetarian. When they've come to ours for a meal DH makes a vegetarian meal and we all eat it. It's nice, it's no big deal and it's easier. When we go to theirs the vegetarian friend sometimes cooks meat for everyone else, but that's because his wife and son aren't vegetarian and he does most of the cooking in their house, but that's his choice.

However, despite not being vegetarian myself I have no problem not having meat in a meal and I can totally understand that there are vegetarians who would not want to celebrate a joyful occasion such as their own wedding by having bits of dead animals on the tables. :-/

Youngvisitor. Yep I eat cheese! If I have a salad I have ham and eggs with it.

I don't eat breakfast but if I did it would be bacon!

Fascinating I'm sure.

So is it more that he has tried to tell you what to do?

well there would be a veggie option at a normal meat eating wedding - so maybe best to have a meat option at a veggie wedding. i like the idea of having an ethical meat option. if he is paying then maybe he has a little say - maybe he wasn't expecting the menu to be completely veggie but just mostly veggie.

And this is exACTly why DH and I chose to pay for our own wedding all by ourselves.

OP - YANBU to be pissed off that he has left it until now to make these demands, and to effectively blackmail you into accepting his terms by refusing to come to the wedding if you don't, never mind the funding issue.

OTOH - you could probably do some cold meats for the non-vegetarians - considerably less smelly than hot cooked meat, so less likely to induce vomitousness in your stbDH.

Give in graciously over the meats (no need to tell him they'd be cold meats) and then never ever take any money from him again.

I think the problem is not really abotu the meat at all (as many people have said). It's about YOUR perception that he is using his money to overrule your preferences, and HIS perception that you are humming and hawing over his one sole request about the wedding.

The comment about the Oxford debate sounds to me like he feels strongly about this, but is unable to articulate why, and felt put on the spot when you asked him to justify his preferences when, from his point of view, the important thing was not the whys and wherefores, but the fact that he'd asked you for this one thing and you were ignoring his feelings.

I can see that from his perspective, asking him to "justify" his feelings, as if you were going to sit in judgment on whether his argument had been convincing enough, must have been deeply wounding. The matter is important to him - isn't that the bottom line? Not some list of pros and cons.

FWIW I really sympathise with you and I know many veggies who would have been deeply unhappy to have a meat menu at their wedding, and totally understand your feelings. But at this point, as you have accepted his money and have no way of paying him back, I think you either have the choice of:

1. acceding gracefully to his request and coming to a compromise you can all live with, or
2. taking his money but telling him to stuff his feelings, which is going to make life very sour for the foreseeable future.

If I were you I would go with 1) and make the best of it, chalk it up to experience, and think twice about taking money from him in the future. If you decide to do 2), then be prepared for some major fallout and upset.

why do the veggers always think they take priority over the meat eaters

oh we dont eat meat, so we arent serving it, yet they expect people to go out of their way to cater for them, even though it may mean making alternative food, cooking in alternative ways etc

you cant have it all ways, say no meat, but dont expect special consideration when you go to places where meat is being served. Dont expect your food to be cooked in separate pots and what have you

"why do the veggers always think they take priority over the meat eaters"

Probably in the same way that non-smokers "think they take priority over" the smokers - because it's usually easier to leave something out than it is to add it in. Smokers adversely affect non-smokers - the smoke gets everywhere, regardless. Meat can adversely affect vegetarians if the smell affects them (see the groom in the OP).

It's really not that hard to have a decent vegetarian meal, in the end. I know that an ex of mine has eaten vegetarian food and not even realised there was no meat in it because it tasted good enough without.

Perhaps the OP's stbFIL believes he's not getting value for his money if there is no meat on the table.

OP - one compromise for the wedding meal could beto serve them sliced cold meat on the side. That way, everyone gets a vegetarian meal but your FIL and mum can be offered some meat too and your DP probably won't smell it. Most venues would be getting in cold meats anyway, it's probably in their fridge already and so you won't be causing an animal to be killed especially for your wedding.

You can then tell the FIL and mum that they will be served meat at the wedding. Get the venue to put a couple of portions of a plate and place it on their table, between them.

(I think my suggestion is an fudge and not something I'd be happy doing myself but then I'm not in your situation - it might work for you).

I think your FIL only listened to what he wanted to hear when you first spoke about the wedding arrangements and that's why he's being an idiot now. There's lots of good advice here to help you deal with his controlling behaviour.

I am not vegetarian but I always cater well for them when I am entertaining.
I would not, however, expect a vegetarian to do the same for me as buying and preparing meat goes against their ethical beliefs.

A compromise could be to serve a meat substitute such as quorn sausages etc. It won't do anyone any harm! Your dp's father is BVU.

If I ever get married (which is highly doubtful) I would not provide meat. If guests come to my house, I do not provide meat. The smell makes me sick, the thought of it makes me feel sick. And it would totally ruin things for me. I was engaged once and my mum said in disbelief 'you won't have meat at the wedding'? I looked at her like she was mad. Because she quite clearly was if she thought I would have meat options at my wedding!

Ok so how much will you save on the cost if him and his meat eating friends don't now come? Will the saving on catering be enough for you to pay yourselves? You need to look at what you can cut back on to pay for this yourself.

I bet if you asked them for a list of who, in addition to them, will no longer be coming if there is no meat option they will back track.
Have you though about explaining that you both feel strongly enough that you feel you will have to pay yourselves now but that clearly will have to cut back on costs to do so and so will be cutting the guest list to just those you want there and also cutting back on flowers etc. Explain you have looked into cancelling but would still have to pay out so that isn't an option at this point. It might make them see how important this is to you and how serious you are on the matter.

Or you could simply say 'there will be food for the meat eaters too' and forget to mention that it happens to be vegi

Oh god just given them a bit of meat and sit them away from your Husband

Good idea gillybean-hopefully one that the parents will take them up on and let them pay themselves.

There are two things going on here, the meal and the question of the way they treat you, OP. And I can completely see why they've got mixed up for you - this probably feels like the straw that broke the camel's back, in terms of their attitude.

And that's the bigger question. Clearly their attitude sucks, they are controlling and - as loads of posters have said - you need to separate a bit from them and just not take it any more.

As for the meal, I really don't know. Given the above, of course YANBU; he is being controlling. And I also think that YANBU because a wedding is about families, but it is also an event that is very personal to you and DP, because it is, in some way, a symbol of the two of you. So I can see why you want it veggie.

But having said all that, I think you are stuck with it. Can I ask why you are veggie? If it is animal welfare reasons, then would you be happy using meat from a sustainable source where you knew they would be well treated?

Just rereading. Does the cost of the venue include the cost of the meal? Is he actually paying for both? I just wondered if he is kicking up a fuss for something he has offered to pay for or if he's threatening to withhold the money for the venue even though you are paying for the meal. On reading back your OP it's not clear. Venue doesn't necessarily include meal after all.

Can you afford to pay for everything yourselves at short notice?

Also it's been said somewhere that some people do eat meat at every meal and then it's been clarified to including eggs or cheese, not necessarily meat, at every meal. So would he and your DP consider some sort of eggy-cheese dish as a compromise? Omelette or Quiche perhaps, with a nice salad or mediterranian veg?

ooh! Just thought. Tell him you'll offer a lasagna or moussaka option and make it with Quorn (which I have never tried) and if he notices the difference it will be too late.

Fabbychick, Im sure ive read beforethat you only eat 3 crispbreads for lunch, with no topping not much meat there?

yes, was that Fabbychic?

I now have an image in my head of a huge slab of steak on a tiny crispbread

I think YABU not having a meat option. I don't mind eating vegetarian options although not what I would normally eat (although I would think it was a bit rubbish and have an internal grumble about it) but I know a lot of people who would mind quite a lot especially those of an older generation. Part of being a host is to cater to your guest's needs. I think it is wrong for you to impose your beliefs on them.

I also think it's a bit odd of you to ask his opinion about everything else as he is paying for it, but as soon as he expresses the only opinion he has on the event you get all pissed off.

But trixy, it is not about guests' needs. I refuse to believe that anyone needs meat at every single meal.

'Tell him you'll offer a lasagna or moussaka option and make it with Quorn '
I'm allergic to Quorn so i certainly would

I would have a meat option in the same way as a vegetarian option myself

and I don't understand how much you can discuss something like that to be honest - it's a yay or nay surely