or are UP parents really nuts?

[FunnysInTheGarden]

I mean talk about making all your lives difficult....

Am ready BTW for the UP parents cries of dissent [cgrin]

jugglingjo - could you have given him 5minutes to finish whatever he was doing? Or get to a suitable break in play?

I think one of the main issues that afternoon was the co-parenting aspects with my own parents. Grandparents really need to let the parents deal with such situations IMHO. But with your own parents and in-laws unfortunately they sometimes have other ideas.
Basically it wasn't worth that much heartache to have a small boy sit up at the table immediately for a family lunch.
My own natural approach would have been for the rest of us to get on with our lunch together, and expect that DS would soon come and join us.

Sorry but jugglingjo your post is a perfect illustration what the anti UP have been saying all the way through this thread!

Bruffin, in what way? Surely a clash of parenting styles would result in a similar situation as jugglin's whether UP was involved or not. In fact, it's a better example of how children are not shielded from other life experiences even though their parent takes a UP approach.
And I think regardless of parenting style most parents these days would take issue with the granddad smacking.

Becasue
a)the child at 6 years old did not do as he was told when being asked to do by not just one but two adults.

b Parent was quite happy to let him carry on behaving rudely, because he didn't want to do what he wanted to carrying playing his game rather than do what he was told.

I think some of the UP things make sense. I have 4 childrem - 2 easy, 1 okayish and 1 very stubborn. They are grown up now. But when they were young second youngest could be a nightmare. I did let her go out wearing not enough clothes in cold weather for a 10 minute walk to shops. She didn't argue next time and put on her coat as requested.

Not sure still if this was right approach. But I had argued with her that she needed to put coat one, she refused - she was 3. I couldn't face 20 minutes argument of forcing her to put her coat on whilst supervising other 4. So I said you will be cold, but if you don't want to put coat on then okay.

But with example of lunch above - I would have expected child to come to table when told to. If he didn't want to eat fine, but he would have sat at the table and been part of the family. The approach of leaving him is imo saying that his views are more important than the views of the rest of the family. At a meal with extended family, everyone sits down to eat at same time - may not be ideal time for all, but we compromise for thesake of the group.

everyspring - If I go round for a meal at someone's house and they ask me to take my seat as the meal is now ready, I would sit down. I certainly wouldn't be miffed!

The same with school Maryz - does he expect the rest of the class to wait while he finishes playing?

Had they gone for lunch or for a visit and the visit coincided with lunch-time?
If I'd been jugglinjo and I realised that lunch was being made then I'd already have forewarned my dc so that they were 'on alert' for the call. I wouldnt have sprung it on them and if it had been sprung on all of us then I'd have had some sympathy for the child immersed in play.

If I was at my grandmother's house for a meal, I would sit down when it was ready because to do otherwise is breathtakingly rude, and jugglinjo, I'm surprised your parents are still talking to you.

Either your child is a child, anfd has a child's level of self responsibility and needs to by told what is appropriate, or a child has an adult level of autonomy, and is available to take the consequences of ytheir actions, which, if a six year old was this revoltingly behaved at my house and their parents did not somehow force some compliance, would mean a dis-invitation for the rest of the child's natural life.

Well I know both my son's grandparents would accept it if he didn't want to come and sit down. He is a little younger than 6 though! Seriously - at a formal meal, fair enough. But at a grandparents house (was it just immediate family)? Rather than cajoling too much or punishing, I'd have just said "fine - come and join us if you are ready. But there won't be any other food until . just so you know."

In my experience - they will usually come and join in or they feel excluded.

I certainly don't think it is "breathtakingly rude". Depends on your relationship with the grandparents though obviously.

I agree with Juule's last post too - I'd probably also have made sure he hadn't eaten much leading up to it to make sure he was hungry.

i think a 6 year old is perceptive enough to know that lunch is on its way without needing a count down- they would have been aware that was the reason for the visit, then aware that granny/grandad/whoever had gone to the kitchen to prepare it- smells, noises etc- there is usually some discussion about what lunch is going to be etc A 2 r 3 year old may need a count down but IMO a 6 year old could have complied with the request to come in for lunch without the need for a big song and dance

agree with Cat though - wouldnt be considered breath takingly rude in our family

and..had my dad smacked my kids for this- he'd get one upside his head himself

really? It's ok to let home made meals go cold because Timmy would rather play tractors?

I do wonder if an ex friend of mine was reared this way. he came for a meal with his girlfriend, and I presented a roast chicken dinner, and despite being asked several times to come to the table because dinner is ready, he got up after ten minutes and took it to the computer, where he'd been playing (MY computer!) and ignoring his girlfriend, their child, me, my partner and my child. he ate his meal there.

He has not set foot in my house since.

And whilst I expect an almost adult level of toilet training from a NT six year old, I expect an almost adult level of meeting social requirments when prompted from a normal six year old, and if they don't then I certainly expect their parents to step in and do something about it other than smile weakly and say "Maybe he's not hungry...."

It is breathtakingly rude of the parents and the DC to basically say 'whenever' to people who had cooked food for him. If children are asked to sit at the table for food, then they sit at the table for food. If they don't eat it, that is a different matter.

I haven't been back to this thread today, but I thought of it several times today, wondering what the "UP" way would have been.

DS is nearly 18 months.

Situation 1: Ds decides it would be fun to stick his fingers in the plug. It's his first time noticing it, so I need to go and buy those thingies to stop him sticking his fingers in plugs. As it is, I say "don't touch" and wave my hands (we also do this for the oven/fire). He takes his hands away. Then he goes back to it. I repeat. Third time I remove him. He doesn't really make a fuss.

Situation 2: Ds starts to crayon on the wall. I redirect him to a piece of paper. He has a brief go, then returns to crayoning on the wall. I take the piece of paper and place it on the wall where he is crayoning. He pushes it out of the way to do it on the wall. I say: "no, not on the wall darling" and we move into another room.

Situation 3: Ds manages to get away from me in the living room and runs towards the kitchen, where the floor is still a bit wet after being washed. I roar NO! Slippy! but it's just a second too late and he goes flying. He gets a big kiss and a cuddle.

Situation 4: He is sitting at highchair with a shallow toy basin of sudsy water and some plastic toys while I clean up the floor underneath it. He is pouring the water in the basin but decides to play a game of chucking water on my head. I say: "No honey, that will make the floor slippy". He goes back to pouring. He hasn't forgotten what "slippy" is..

I just don't see how any of these situations represent "conditional parenting". How is it conditional to say "no" to a child? Why would it make him feel any more or less loved? I just don't get it. It's guidance about the world when a child is at an age where he just doesn't know where the boundaries are.

Am I missing something?

Oohh ! You're hard as nails on here, aren't you ?!
Thanks to those who said they didn't find it "breathtakingly rude" that a small boy had a strop about coming in for lunch.
My point, remember dear readers, was that perhaps I could have tried a fuller variety of approaches to achieve compliance from DS.
Thankfully my family though far from perfect is not one which would disown other family members for the behaviour of small children.
We live to fight another day !

I agree it's not desirable, but wouldn't go anywhere near as far as 'breathtakingly rude'. And I don't expect almost adult behaviour at six. I also think that it's fine for children to learn that rules can be more relaxed in an informal setting. It would just be totally unthinkable in my family or any of my friends families for a child to get a smack for that, let alone from a grandparent! I'm glad I don't mix in such cold circles tbh. Not sure how else to describe it but words fail me to think the reaction could be that extreme. Maybe in the 19th century..

no one is as hard as nails, but if DS1 who is 5 said 'just wait a moment, I'm still playing' when asked to come in for dinner at someone else's house, I would make sure that he was at the table within minutes. The same at home though. It's rude to keep someone waiting after they have gone to the trouble of making food for you.

As someone else said, it probably depends on the relationship you have with the people you are visiting. My parents would have been relaxed about a 6yo finishing off playing for a couple of minutes (probably longer). But if I was at someones house who was a bit of a stickler for things then I would probably be hissing through my teeth at my 6yo to convey the 'now!' message - which usually would be understood and get them moving.:o