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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be pissed off at school revelations?

341 replies

HKLP · 27/04/2011 23:19

Have name changed for this as the route in which I found out this info makes me very identifiable.

I always have my friend's DD on Teacher training days as she has to work at the school the DC attend.

My 2DC are off school today and tomorrow as the school decided to manipulate TT days so that the school broke up on 8th April(1.30pm) and return 3rd May. It means the school will be open on Polling Day (with extra safeguarding in place Hmm) and we will not finish one day early in July as we normally do.

That's fine, but obviously 3 weeks and a day and a half makes life very difficult for WOHPs.

After speaking to my friend last night, it was revealed that the staff are not going into school on these 2 days as have worked/will work extra hours after school to make up the time.

Shock

Apparently, attendance at afterschool events will count towards this time, rather than actual training. Is this acceptable standrd practice?

AIBU to be pissed off about this?

OP posts:
clam · 27/04/2011 23:26

I don't know about standard practice, but I know of a couple of schools who've done odd things with 'twilight' training sessions in lieu of INSET days. Not sure how it works though, as my schools have never done it.

Tommy · 27/04/2011 23:31

my sister's school does twilight sessions for staff INSET so they get longer holidays. She likes it and it seems to work (for teachers)
I think any odd days off are a pain for parents TBH - it will never be right for eveyone all the time

worraliberty · 27/04/2011 23:32

Sorry I don't get it.

When will they actually receive their training? Are you sure it's not simply that the teacher's are being trained somewhere else...like the local college or something?

TeamLemon · 27/04/2011 23:34

Lots of schools do "twilight" training sessions.
It's perfectly legal and above board, and it's all down to the way teachers contracts are written.
Teachers get paid for X hours of "directed time" (I think it's 1265 hours a year). This directed time is made up of time for teaching, planning and preparation, assesment and training. The twilight sessions are often extended staff meetings and two or three of these can add up to one INSET day.
As long as the children still get the required teaching sessions per year, and the teachers fulfill their 1265 hours, these directed hours can be arranged at the Head's discretion.

TethersEnd · 27/04/2011 23:37

Twilight training is where a series of 2 hr training sessions replace one whole day.

So, teachers receive the same amount of training, complete the same amount of directed time and save up their evenings in order to have a whole day not at work. It's like banking overtime.

Your children still attend the same amount of school days.

StayFr0sty · 27/04/2011 23:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Savvalon · 27/04/2011 23:54

I would be really pissed off at this to be honest. Surely attendance at after school events such as parent's evening's is factored in to their contracted hours?

Savvalon · 27/04/2011 23:55

Much in the way that I am paid a salary as opposed to hours?

It's all contracted in.

YANBU

TeamLemon · 27/04/2011 23:57

Savalon, that is what we are saying. Twilights and parents evenings are all in the contracted hours, or directed time. We do the same amount as teaching, your child gets the same number of days schooling.

TeamLemon · 28/04/2011 00:00

"Currently, the STPCD provides a contractual limit of 1,265 hours of directed time per annum for full-time classroom and excellent teachers in England and Wales. Headteachers can specify how this directed time is used. The 1,265 hours of directed time must be spread over a maximum of 195 days, 190 days of which are with pupil contact"

STPCD School Teachers Pay & Conditions Document

cat64 · 28/04/2011 00:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

desperatelyseekingsnoozes · 28/04/2011 00:18

It is quite standard, many schools have a mixture of twilights and traditional INSETdays. I have to say you probably get extra value this way as most of our staff tend to come in on the INSET day anyway on top of twilight sessions.

This time is not taken from children's contact time, it used to be our holidays.

TeamLemon · 28/04/2011 00:19

We had an extra day off on Tuesday, as time in lieu of the twilight sessions we had done.
What actually happened was that every teacher still came into school (except one, and the Head) to prepare their classrooms and finalise planning for this term.
So really, the Dept for Ed (or whatever the feck it's called now) and taxpayers actually get a free days work out of the teaching staff.
BTW, I had to still find and pay for childcare for my children to come into school on my "day off". It's not just other working parents who need childcare, and teachers aren't just glorified childcare who delight in making it hard for you to work by having holidays.

SlackSally · 28/04/2011 00:22

Yeah, this is quite common. I'm going to twilight training at another establishment tomorrow. From which I won't be home til at least 8. Having left my house at 7. Don't worry, you're still getting your pound of flesh.

izzywhizzyletsgetbusy · 28/04/2011 00:37

Wasn't/isn't Twilight the name of a mint confection? Who comes up with this gobshite interesting redefining of the English language? That berk Birt has a lot to answer for....

Seems to me the whole public sector is in the Twilight Zone and there's no chance that they'll wake up and smell the coffee anytime soon.

As long as you understand that schools are primarily run for the convenience of the staff you'll be in the Zone too.

YANBU - the old adage 'those who can, do; those who can't, teach' has never been so true.

(having lit blue touch paper, stands well back) Wink

TeamLemon · 28/04/2011 00:40

Oh do fuck off izzy.
Give teaching a try, then come and spout that "those that can't..." bollocks.

TethersEnd · 28/04/2011 00:42

I think izzy may have had one too many after eights, if you get my drift...

TeamLemon · 28/04/2011 00:44

And the sessions are named twilight because they take place during ...erm...twilight. The end of the day. Twilight.

Twilight is the time between dawn and sunrise, and between sunset and dusk. Sunlight scattered in the upper atmosphere illuminates the lower atmosphere, and the surface of the earth is neither completely lit nor completely dark. The sun itself is not actually visible because it is below the horizon. Twilight is technically defined as the period before sunrise and after sunset during which there is natural light provided by the upper atmosphere, which receives direct sunlight and scatters part of it towards the earth's surface. Wiki

TethersEnd · 28/04/2011 00:59

That's cosmic, lemon... cosmic

ilovesooty · 28/04/2011 01:19

Schools in my LA break up on a Monday for the summer this year. That day in one school I know was designated a training day but the staff will attend extra twilight sessions totalling one full day and have that day off. Pupils are therefore not affected. I don't see what the problem is for some posters on this thread.

izzywhizzyletsgetbusy · 28/04/2011 02:25

Many thanks for your cut and paste clarification TeamLemon. I must confess to being immensely relieved that I left the profession prior to it being decreed that teachers in the UK should work at 3am and 9am in the summer months.

BTW your name, together with your choice of words, reminded me why I quit teaching so you've given me treble cause to celebrate.

So many old adages have stood the test of time, and I suspect they'll continue to hold true and be quoted by generations to come.

sunnydelight · 28/04/2011 04:20

I don't see the problem personally if the training is provided at another time. Surely happy staff are a good thing for our kids? The teachers at my kids' school are amazing; I know there are very high expectations placed on them by the head - I often see them starting to arrive at 7.15am if I have to drop early for sport so I would never begrudge them the chance of a couple of extra days holiday.

NorfolkNChance · 28/04/2011 06:42

YABU

This is incredibly common practice amongst schools. Often those running the training cannot make the specific days so we have a set amount of time after school in which to complete that training, think about it if there are 20 schools, all in one area and only one trainer (who also works outside that area) and 5 INSET days... well you do the maths there (and you might even get a gold star Wink )

Twilight sessions are very common in the longer Autumn term to give time either side of the holidays.

gorionine · 28/04/2011 06:51

If the training is done, does it really matter to you exactly when it is? If teachers like the rest of us enjoy making the most of a sunny day and train in the evening I have no problem with it TBH.

lynehamrose · 28/04/2011 07:08

So the teachers are still doing the hours of training, just during evening or weekend sessions,'rather than on the specific days that you thought op? What on earth are you pissed off about? Be honest - you just feel a bit short changed don't you? You would feel ok if you knew the staff were working on that specific day that the school is shut, and its sour grapes on your part that they will already have worked their hours. You are being ridiculous. It makes NO difference to you. Your kids will still get taught for the same number of specified days.
Issy - you sound like someone who left because you couldn't hack teaching! Haven't you heard the other old adage- those who can, teach, those who can't, just moan about teachers!!

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