to be pissed off at school revelations?

[HKLP]

Have name changed for this as the route in which I found out this info makes me very identifiable.

I always have my friend's DD on Teacher training days as she has to work at the school the DC attend.

My 2DC are off school today and tomorrow as the school decided to manipulate TT days so that the school broke up on 8th April(1.30pm) and return 3rd May. It means the school will be open on Polling Day (with extra safeguarding in place ) and we will not finish one day early in July as we normally do.

That's fine, but obviously 3 weeks and a day and a half makes life very difficult for WOHPs.

After speaking to my friend last night, it was revealed that the staff are not going into school on these 2 days as have worked/will work extra hours after school to make up the time.

Apparently, attendance at afterschool events will count towards this time, rather than actual training. Is this acceptable standrd practice?

AIBU to be pissed off about this?

And many teachers don't I know several that do not do much outside of 9-5 mon to fri.

Some people just have better time management and organising skills.

I love the way when teachers work the hours they're contracted for - they're the bogeyman...

Yet if I was to go and start a thread "AIBU to not want to work 2 extra days for free" (the hours in question have already been covered at different points in the year) - what response do you think I would get?

Or "My employer's demanding I give up my evening for free"... what response do you think I would get there (added bonus points for childcare considerations).

Or "I got assaulted at work today - my employer will do nothing and I have to face the person who assaulted me again tomorrow"

...I bet they'd get a much different response. Yet, because it's dealing with teachers, whom we somehow believe we own the very souls of - they're fair game.

Hey - if it's such a cushy number - PGCE applications in by about January time if I recall correctly - you too can get sworn at, punched, nits, worms, verbally abused, insulted, have months of work arbitrarily thrown away, be responsible for every single flaw with society... and get cracking holidays you'll be flat out in bed for half of because you're exposed to every single bug going and spend loads of the other part lesson planning! Oh and add in chucking a third of your wages back INTO your job subsidising the fact it's May and the class have ran out of coloured pencils, card and gluesticks and you NEED them to deliver what's on the curriculum. Come and join us - we only work 9-3 for a few months of the year after all... and we sit and plot holidays and Inset days (boring as fuck death by Powerpoint generally) ESPECIALLY to inconvenience YOU!

Would 'industry' then have to start later to accommodate the fact that schools don't open until 9am? Or will parents have to find more childcare to cover the couple of hours between their leaving for work and school opening?

Besides, most teachers do only take 5-6 wks hols really as planning, assessment marking etc is done during the hols.

Wow, I wish some of my friends loved looking after my DC so much that they would be gutted at me having some extra days off work

Seriously though, the purpose of school is education not free childcare. When teachers do their training has no effect on how welll they educate our children. At the school where my DC go most of the teachers will do extra days in the holidays preparing classrooms etc, in fact last summer they painted the walls in the playground to improve outdoor learning area.

goodbyemrschips - it not about time management and organisational skills, it about the volume of work, how long do you think it takes to mark 60 AS mock exam papers and 40 A level mock exams and do you honestly think that there are enough 'free' non-contact hours in the school day to do this?

The only real downtime my DH gets in the academic year is when the A level candidates have left and only the AS ones are in - however thats a bit late for marking the pre-Easter mocks.

YABVU, the majority of teachers do way over their paid hours so does it matter if they train in the day or evening?

Teachers are not there to provide childcare, they are there to teach and as long as they do the required number of days I dont see the problem. Holiday care has to be juggled by all working parents, its a part of life and something everyone knows before becoming a parent.

I think work load can depend on subject a little, English marking takes an age longer than maths for example.

YABU.

My DC's school does Twilight sessions rather than working the INSETs. As others have said it is the same number of hours over the year so I can't see a problem. In fact, many of the teachers actually end up in school on the INSETs (and on several days during the holidays) regardless as they use the time to organise work for the next term, catch up on paperwork, set up wall displays, sort out the school garden, tidy up their store cupboards etc etc. I have seen them in during the holidays painting the toilets FFS.

So YABVVVU.

If all teachers stuck to the directed hours budget schools would close by May half term.

This has happened at DH's school. I was a bit surprised but don't think it's unusual. Makes no odds to parents whether the teachers are there or not if the school is closed anyway.

Is it unreasonable to ask for your child's teachers' qualifications. Having worked in secondary schools I know of many support staff / completely unqualified being given position of teacher on a full time basis, taking classes even up to GCSE level. One PSA ( about 25) had full English timetable and responsibility for coordinating foreign Lang. Students. Has been doing this for well over a year now. Only experience prior to "teaching" was working in her mother's sandwich shop. Schools are taking advantage of cheaper "teaching" options but parents need to be aware of this.

That is a different kettle of fish and likely to rile teachers as much as anyone else.

The school you are talking about need to be very careful if true.

Teachers, on average, do 11 hours of unpaid overtime every week. That's nearly a day and a half worth of work on top of their usual "9 to 5".

I am absolutley sure that many teachers would leave teaching if they had to work 9 - 5 and had to be in school every day like everyone else.

Come on lets be real - its the long holidays that are regarded as a perk of the job.

At least they put a stop to retiring at 55.

Morebeta - Would you be prepared for the increase in taxes caused by this change. A 9-5, 5 day a week, 6 week annual leave 8 days bank holiday job equates to ~1650 hours per year. Teachers are contracted to do 1265, so you would be increasing their paid hours by 385 hours, for someone on say £30K/pa that would mean a new salary of £39K.

MoreBeta, I think if you offered many of the teachers I know a deal whereby they had to be in school 9-5 everyday (no parents evenings or any other evening functions without paid overtime, of course) like everyone else and could choose their own 5/6 week holiday time, they'd bite your arm off.

Can you answer StayFrosty's points about the logistics of such a plan, please?

No - teachers should be forced to work the extra hours for no extra pay.

The private sector is forcing pay cuts on private sector workers and longer hours and the public sector needs to do the same.

There are a lot of young graduates deperate for work and also quite a few very well qualified older workers (especially women looking to get back into work) who are far better qualified than many teachers.

Indeed I know two women who work as school secretaries but who have far better degrees than the Head teachers they work for.

MoreBeta are you for real?

Please answer StayFrosty's points, MoreBeta.

I'm sure my teacher friends would LOVE to have new hours of 9 to 5. It would be far less than most of them work ! Standard holiday times to be taken when they chose rather than only peak times? Great.