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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Need advice badly!!!

383 replies

worriedandneedsomeadvice · 25/04/2011 16:54

I've just been at the garden centre with my 7 month DD and my 4 year old cocker spaniel.

A man bent down to stroke my dog before I could tell him not to and my dog went for him. Badly. His hand was dripping blood immediately.

I apologised and apologised and my BIL (the manager of the garden centre) took over to make sure the man was okay so I could take the dog (and DD) out.

He's been a bit growly lately but has never done anything like this before.

I'm shaking. I don't know what's going to happen and I don't know what to do.

He's fantastic with my DD, gentle as a lamb with her but as I said, lately he's been growly, especially at children he doesn't know so I've made sure to keep him on a lead and mostly just at home. But he loves BIL so I always take him to the garden centre when we go...

I can't believe this has happened. I don't know what to do. I'm waiting for BIL to call me, but the mans hand looked terrible... Absolutely dripping with blood. It was so quick.

Please give me some advice if you can??

OP posts:
Onetoomanycornettos · 25/04/2011 22:04

I'm sorry, I just don't see how you can say he's not a threat to your daughter, it wasn't a nip, it was a bite which required stitches! And you are very very lucky the man has been understanding, if I had had a dog attack me (although I wouldn't have petted one) I would not be being nice about it at all.

RumourOfAHurricane · 25/04/2011 22:04

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RumourOfAHurricane · 25/04/2011 22:05

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Newgolddream · 25/04/2011 22:14

There was a little girl locally badly mauled by a dog belonging to her neighbour recently, when she was in the garden playing with the neighbours young child and the thing that emerged was the owner had kept this breed of dogs for a long time and one of them had bitten off her own sons ear when he was younger - and yet she still didnt see them as a danger!

I find it quite disturbing that no matter how much an animal is loved and part of the family any parent could ignore the potential risks to their own children tbh. A dog is not a "baby".

RumourOfAHurricane · 25/04/2011 22:18

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Original poster
worriedandneedsomeadvice · 25/04/2011 22:19

Clams - as I've already said, i'm obviously going to take precautions. A lot of people have suggested that he was protecting my DD... And he's never growled at her or been remotely threatening. I'm not taking this lightly, I'm shocked at his behaviour and (again, as I've said) going to take him to the vet first thing and do everything I can to prevent this from ever happening again.

It's not a pattern of behaviour, it's something that happened once, and obviously it was awful and cannot happen again, but I don't believe that my dog deserves to be 'put to sleep' over one incident.

They're not playing together now... DD's in bed, but I was responding to the person who asked what the point of having my dog was when he would just be isolated, and I was trying to assure the poster that he wouldn't be.

As for your clear disdain at me calling him 'my baby' thanks so much for outlining the difference for me Hmm

OP posts:
firsttimer84 · 25/04/2011 22:23

so glad the man understood op, i couldnt imagine having my cocker spaniel put down. Ours is temperamental but he has no teeth now (due to old age and having more and more out) so cant do any damage! (im not saying this is the solution by the way!) Hope everything works out xx

mouseanon · 25/04/2011 22:42

I'm very glad you are going to the vet. I also think it is essential, since you intend to keep the dog, that you get your vet to refer you to a behaviour counsellor. Any decent behaviour counsellor will only take you on referral from a vet but your best bet is to find a member of the APBC and I think you need to be seen as a matter of urgency. In the meantime carry on as you are keeping the dog physically well separated from the baby and don't take the dog out without a muzzle (muzzle training).

The growliness was a warning that things weren't right, what has happened is a result of not paying attention to that warning, it's an escalation. Obviously what has happened has happened and there's nothing to be gained by beating yourself up over it, but you do need to be aware that this is an escalating behaviour so if you don't do anything about it the chances are very high that it could get worse.

LoopyLoopsNincompoop · 25/04/2011 22:45

I really hope (I know this sounds wrong, but...) that the vet discovers an ear infection or something tomorrow. Good luck.

moosemama · 25/04/2011 22:45

I have two dogs, three until recently and they are never and have never been left alone with my dcs, but are still very much a part of the family and lead full happy lives.

There is a dog gate between where their beds are and where the dcs are during the day. They go and play in the garden and come in when the dcs go out - unless either dh or I are going out there as well.

Until dd came along, they spent all day every day with me while the boys were at school and they will do again when she starts nursery next year.

In the evenings they come in the living room with dh and I and either deadleg us by lying on our feet or curl up happily in front of the fireplace. (Actually my lurcher prefers to try and curl up on my lap - which is ridiculous now he is a fully grown lanky hairy mutt.)

My children have all been taught how to behave appropriately around them - ie never disturb them when they are eating or sleeping, never pull fur or tails or poke eyes etc. Ds1(9) and ds2(7) are just starting to throw toys for them to retrieve and the dogs treat them with the same respect they treat dh and I with, they obey the drop command then retreat and wait for the toy to be thrown rather than harrassing the dcs. Ds1 is also helping dh to feed them and both dogs wait for his command before approaching their food bowls.

Its is possible to keep dogs and children in the same home without them ever being left alone and doing so doesn't mean anyone has to miss out.

skybluepearl · 25/04/2011 23:03

the dog must have a muzzel if he is a danger to people. the man did nothing wrongand really you are responsible for how your dog behaves.

GiddyPickle · 25/04/2011 23:04

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ThatVikRinA22 · 25/04/2011 23:27

does 'cocker rage' exist? i have to confess it was something that put me off looking at cockers when we got our dogs - ended up getting cavs.

the only cockers i have known seemed to have the same problem, and im afraid one friend with a young cocker did have hers pts after it went for her child, she said she just couldnt risk it, the week prior he had growled at another friends kids.

hope you get sorted op but it does sound as though your pooch has a problem. i would go down the behaviour expert route too, or a doggy psyche.

Janoschi · 25/04/2011 23:33

Wading into the fray here in defense of OP! I think she's taking the whole thing VERY seriously and absolutely applaud her commitment both to the dog and to finding proper help for it.

I'm also involved with rescue dogs (though not to the extent of Valhalla!) and 3 years ago I rescued a dog from a killing station in Spain. She was ill, disorientated and stressed for at least 6 months. 3 days after rescuing her I took her to the local supermarket and sat outside with her on a short lead while my DH got some bits. A father and toddler approached and the toddler with ABSOLUTELY NO WARNING stuck his hand up her bum. I had no idea how the dog would react to a child at this point, let alone one who was seriously asking for trouble. Luckily my dog just froze, but what kind of father allows that kind of event to happen? We also had situations where parents would literally scream and drag children out of our path, and our dog was a fluffy bear of a dog, not a recognised 'dangerous breed'.

I'm now highly pregnant and I have to say, our lovely dog IS very stressed and protective of me. I'm taking precautions by maintaining a strong personality (as in 'Don't worry, I can take care of myself, I don't need protecting'), giving her a lot of reassurance and also keeping her on a lead in public. I also warn approaching people that she's a bit unpredictable at the moment. She's not growled or done anything bad, but I can sense her stress and want to keep things sensible.

My point to both of these paragraphs is that it's not always fair for people to say that dogs are wild and naturally aggressive, and once they've tasted blood they'll bite again. There's ALWAYS a reason for the behaviour. And some people (I don't mean the man in the OP) can act like total idiots. But the owner also needs to be aware that dogs can misread situations, especially when they feel they suddenly have to fill a role (ie protecting the family) which they have no training for.

Sorry, that was far too long. Just wanted to say I see both sides and the best anyone can hope to be, on either side of the debate, is responsible but also compassionate.

I hope Worried finds a positive solution.

squeakytoy · 25/04/2011 23:34

My MIL has a cocker, and it is a grumpy possessive dog. It has growled at small children before, and is very jealous if anyone goes near my MIL.

I have no idea why people say they are a good family breed, because all the ones I have known have been the same as MIL's and very unpredictable. Give me a well trained staffy any day over a cocker.

Original poster
worriedandneedsomeadvice · 25/04/2011 23:50

My parents have had three in my lifetime, one of which they still have, and they have all been fantastic family members... Very gentle with me and my siblings, and now to a huge amount of grandchildren and great nephews etc.

And up until today (and to a lesser extent a few days of growling) my dog has been absolutely amazing too.

And I do take what happened today extremely seriously, I've been in absolute pieces today, thanks to those of you who have given such good advice.

OP posts:
pebbles1972 · 25/04/2011 23:54

Vallhala Mon 25-Apr-11 19:06:23
"What do you mean you never have him PTS? What if he savaged someone? You wouldn't have the choice."

I'd make sure that I had a choice personally. See what I said at the end of my post at 17.24, VT.

Wow, really? an animal savaged a human and you'd commit a crime by protecting that dangerous animal found to be unsafe in a court of law, by whisking it away ? Well excuse me for not patting you on the back for being one of those scum who allowed a dangerous dog, albeit 'misunderstood', to maul my son's face. EXPLAIN.

Rhinestone · 26/04/2011 00:17

Pebbles - back off. Valhalla doesn't deserve to be called scum and I don't believe she would allow a dog to maul a child's face.

pebbles1972 · 26/04/2011 00:25

Rhinestone - errr, you back off pfft. I don't doubt she wouldn't allow a dog to maul a child's face. She would by her own words hide a dangerous dog who mauled someone!

ChippingInLovesEasterEggs · 26/04/2011 00:34

Pebbles - Val would make sure the dog got the training and enviroment it needed. It would not need to be PTS simply because it has been failed by the humans in its life thus far.

As for including her in 'those 'scum' that who allowed a dangerous dog albeit 'misunderstood', to maul your sons face'.... that's a disgusting thing to say and you owe her an apology.

Val's little finger on her left hand knows more about dogs than any court in this country...

As for EXPLAIN - wtf do you think you are? Val owes you nothing - it was not a dog in her charge that hurt your son.

pebbles1972 · 26/04/2011 00:48

The dog that mauled my son's face hadn't been failed by anyone...like you get nasty humans ie myra hindley, fred west, etc etc, you DO get nasty vicious animals who are just vile no matter what training or environment it was in. Not failed by any humans no matter what some 'wallah' on mumsnet said ROLLS EYES

I don't disagree for one moment that most animals who bite deserve a chance..they do...what I readily disagree with is that an animal that could be deemed dangerous by a court has some person on a chatboard advising on how best to hide it..you don't like that? tough..

ChippingInLovesEasterEggs · 26/04/2011 01:11

I see your ROLLS EYES and raise you a Hmm

pebbles1972 · 26/04/2011 01:22

eh? errrm....okay...lol...Hmm

RumourOfAHurricane · 26/04/2011 08:08

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goodbyemrschips · 26/04/2011 08:26

Would this thread of taken a different turn if the man was a ''small child''?

OP is taking good action but dogs are unpredictable and could turn at any time through no fault of the owner.