Need advice badly!!!

[worriedandneedsomeadvice]

I've just been at the garden centre with my 7 month DD and my 4 year old cocker spaniel.

A man bent down to stroke my dog before I could tell him not to and my dog went for him. Badly. His hand was dripping blood immediately.

I apologised and apologised and my BIL (the manager of the garden centre) took over to make sure the man was okay so I could take the dog (and DD) out.

He's been a bit growly lately but has never done anything like this before.

I'm shaking. I don't know what's going to happen and I don't know what to do.

He's fantastic with my DD, gentle as a lamb with her but as I said, lately he's been growly, especially at children he doesn't know so I've made sure to keep him on a lead and mostly just at home. But he loves BIL so I always take him to the garden centre when we go...

I can't believe this has happened. I don't know what to do. I'm waiting for BIL to call me, but the mans hand looked terrible... Absolutely dripping with blood. It was so quick.

Please give me some advice if you can??

A dog is an animal and a human is a human! Whether or not they will do pt again it is never ever worth the risk! I love my dog a lot! But I would never value his life over that of any human! If a dog has attacked un provoked it needs to be pts! You would never be so understanding had it been your child. I cannot believe some of the things I'm hearing?

sorry any dog who bites this badly in any situation is not safe and should be euthanised you cannot rehome such a dog and to keep it in a home with a small child muzzled or nt is ridiculous. some cockers especially red cockers can suffer from a rage syndrome where they suddenly attack

Im glad I came across this thread, my divvy husband is always encouraging our DD2yo to stroke dogs, and I hate it. In fairness to him, he always asks the owners about the temperament of the dog before hand, but, still it makes me cringe,

I shall be showing him this thread, I m frightened when DD gets older she will approach peoples dogs in the street/town, without asking etc

After reading this, its going to be a NO stroke rule in our house

My DH is desperate for a dog, but I so scared for my children I refuse, im not suggesting a family dog is silly or dangerous, my brother was bitten quite badly when he was younger, requiring a hospital visit, I think it scarred me for life. I just can not trust any dog with my children

Christmasdaybaby and fresias - I'm sorry for what happened but there is absolutely no way I would even contemplate putting my dog to sleep for a second.

What if, as people have suggested, I take him to the vet today and she discovers something physically wrong, but treatable? Would you still have been happy to put him to sleep?

And I know it wasn't the mans fault and I have never said it was but would it really be considered unprovoked if a strange man leant down from nowhere and shoved his hand in your face?

I can't believe that some people would so easily just have thier dog killed. :(

My ils used to have a red cocker & he was an aggressive little shit who would growl & anything & anyone,he would go for other dogs all the time & bit my sil in the face ripping her eyelid open.He has been dead a long time now but i wouldnt have trusted him at all.

My parents on the other hand have had an english bull terrier & now have 2 staffies since the ebt died,they are lovely dogs & the elder staffie takes herself into the kitchen & sits by the door when my mum has visitors.She wont come in till she is allowed iyswim.

Op i am not sure what i would do in your situation but good luck for the future & i hope your dog doesnt bite again.

worriedandneedsomeadvice:
And I know it wasn't the mans fault and I have never said it was but would it really be considered unprovoked if a strange man leant down from nowhere and shoved his hand in your face?

How would you have felt if an elderly person in a wheelchair had their hand by their side & was bitten or a small child?Or someone had been forced to walk too closely to you because it was busy?

What about rehoming the dog with a family without children and the ability to train it (obviously if this turns out to be a behavioural issue rather than a physical one). I just don't think I'd be comfortable with it in the same house as my dc.

We had two labs, one of whom we gave to a friend as she was unpredictable and quite flighty as soon as I found out I was pg with dd1, and the other we gave to a family member as he started to growl and went quite grumpy when dd1 arrived.

DoingthebestICan - I would have felt the same, awful! But I think there's a huge difference to a dog of an idle hand hanging beside a wheelchair and one coming at you??

As for children, aren't we all more aware when there are children around anyway? And I would hope that most children old enough to be independently walking away from thier parents in a public place like a shop would know not to touch a strange dog.

Well i hope your dog doesnt bite again,like i said earlier good luck.

Hollyoaks - I would never give my dog away. I'll work on the problem myself. It would devastate me to give him away - I appreciate a lot of people don't seem to understand this but he's a member of my family. I wouldn't give away my brother if he started shouting at people?

pebbles, You know as much about me as you do about the Dangerous Dogs Act or about dogs, so cut out the insults please.

I am not "scum". I'm one of many, many thousands of people who are aware of the huge and unnecessary scope of the DDA, of it's sweeping powers as one of those very rare UK laws whereby the onus is upon the accused to prove themself innocent and not vice-versa, of that it was brought forward as a knee-jerk reaction, is ill-thought out and doesn't address the issues as it should.

And I don't have to explain myself to YOU or to any other bugger.

Besides... get it right. I said that I would remove a dog from the risk of seizure, not a dog which is under a court order. If my dog were subject to a court order he would already have been seized from me. He would have been seized rhe moment the Police turned up to arrest/question me about the incident.

He would be taken into council funded kennels, I would not be allowed to know where he was and I wouldn't be allowed to see him until when and IF he and I were found not guilty. That could take a year or more.

He would... and I have evidence of this - quite possibly be kept in conditions that would render an independent rescue in breach of the Animal Welfare Act and cause the RSPCA to cry for their dogs to be removed and their premises shut. He would be deprived of virtually all human contact and deprived of all canine contact.

And then, because the DDA says that the onus is upon M.me to prove myself innocent, unlike the law covering human murder, burglary etc etc, in which the law states that it is for the prosecution to prove the defendant guilty,because it's one person fighting a hugely well funded prosecution, because there is so much ignorance of dog welfare and so much prejuduce against them in the current climate, my dog may very well be ordered to be killed rather than rehabilitated.

I deal with all manner of dogs and I see what can be done in terms of rehabilitation when people put in the effort, time and energy. When

I would rather take my chances with the law and have my dog safely in an environment where he can be properly cared for and rehabilitated. I am not "some wallah" nor "scum" and I wasn't advising the OP to do as I was. I said that this would be something that I would by that time considering if I were in her position. I made it crystal clear that this was - QUOTE - "my personal view and I must making [sic] the OP aware of the fact that it would not be a legitimate action.".

So please cut the insults and stop accusing me of things I haven't said or advised.

yes op i have been in similar situation dog nipped a child although not enough to draw blood and decided that i would rather live with the guilt of putting a dog to sleep that tha guilt of seeing a child mine or someone elses maimed for life or killed because i had anthropromorphised my dog and felt it was my baby . i personally believe the dogs do get a taste for blood and the power it brings
imho and i'm a vet non practising atm putting a dog to sleep in this situation is kinder than the alternatives that is constant muzzling many dogs don't respond well to this and muzzles dont always work i bear the scars of a rottweiler bite inflicted by a muzzled dog who managed to snap it's muzzle before attacking. the dog will always need to be on a leash never allowed to run free , i would be very wary of taking it in to a public place where there is even the smallest chance it could come into contact with other people or animals. one day your dd will be old enough to open doors , stair gates etc what if she lets the dog in and he attacks her .

rehoming very difficult would need someone who never had children or the elderly visit and never goes out to public areaswith the dog the new owner would need tovery experienced. there are enough "safe" dogs needing to be rehomed without trying to rehome those who bite.
this will probably result in the dog being serially rehomed or kept in a dog sanctuary for life .both imo far more cruel than a pain free injection in the arms of those who love him . sometimes unfortunately you have to be cruel to be kind

finally dogs who attack in the manner you've described giive all dogs and their owners a bad name

Well, it wasn't easy to give them away, they were a brother and sister we'd had since pups and they were three and five. I had quite a few tears over it, but we still see them every now and again and they have a wonderful life.

It's a personal thing, but if this was a behavioural issue I couldn't risk the dog being around the dc. One mistake more could be your dd's face God forbid. I also can't believe you'd allow your brother into your house if there was a chance his behaviour might result in an injury to your dd though, so it's not really a fair comparison.

Let's hope it's a medical cause that can be fixed easily.

Let me try that last bit again:

I would rather take my chances with the law and have my dog safely in an environment where he can be properly cared for and rehabilitated.

I am not "some wallah" nor "scum" and I wasn't advising the OP to do as I was. I said that this would be something that I would by that time be considering if I were in her position.

So please cut out the insults and stop accusing me of saying things that I haven't just to suit your own agenda.

Funnily enough, Freesias one of the rescues I work closely with and admire for it's no kill policy often has its own and a couple of other local vets call them up about dogs which owners have brought in for PTS. They refuse to do so and contact us instead. That particular rescue may or may not have space for the dog concerned but we never let them die. Frequently I find rescue places for such dogs.

And, as a rescuer who works with more rescues than I can count, I can assure you that there is NOTHING remotely kinder about killing a dog rather than have ihim live out his days in sanctuary if necessary, in a kind, caring and dedicated environment.

All I can say is that you've either visited very few rescues or you've visited the wrong ones. I'm frankly disgusted that a vet could advocate killing a healthy animal and thank god my own don't hold your view... well, they wouldn't as if they did I wouldn't use them.

First do no harm.... shame the ethical code doesn't apply to vets imho.

I'm hardly baying for the dog's bloody and yeah he is a part of the family (tbh you've no business having an animal of any kind of you're not going to treat it as such) but can you hand on heart say you'll ever trust it 100% again? what if no medical cause is found? what if he did just snap? with the best will in the world there will come a time your baby makes a grab for this interesting animal - it's in the baby's nature to be inquisitive.

Are you absolutely sure that he won't snap again?

The man was wrong to stroke your dog without checking that he was okay first. But the dog is a risk and I agree that you need to get him checked out by the vet as soon as possible.

I have two DCs and the rule in our house is that you don't touch any dog at all - its just safer that way. I wouldn't try to stroke any dog I didn't know.

Actually, a similar thing happened to my Mum when she was out with her big old Goldendoodle, usually a very placid, calm dog but fiercely protective of everyone but especially her. She was outside a shop with the dog on a lead waiting for my Dad and a man approached her, and immediately bent down to touch the dog, who went for the man (because he probably thought he was going to touch my Mum). The dog didn't get him because my Mum pulled him back but the man was very apologetic and agreed that he shouldn't have done what he did without asking if it was okay first. Too many people assume that because a dog looks cute, it's safe.

Freesias - I find it completely unbelievable that you are a vet with an attitude like that :(

id expect to have it put down, in fact i think you should organise it yourself. you cant be sure it wont do it again.

for the people saying i hope nothing else comes of this, if the op had written this post saying she had been bitten by an unfamiliar dog whilst out people would be shouting for the dog to be put down.

no difference

I don't think a brother can be compared to a dog but yeah if I thought my brother was about to bite my kids (and your dog didn't just 'shout') I'd keep him away from them.

Knittedbreast - laughably, no. You make me sick. I hope no animal or person in your world never makes a mistake.

Chipping - I find it completely believable that Fressia's a vet with an attitude like that. Or at least that some vets have that attitude...

KnittedBeast, QUOTE - "for the people saying i hope nothing else comes of this, if the op had written this post saying she had been bitten by an unfamiliar dog whilst out people would be shouting for the dog to be put down. No difference"

Had the OP done so I would still not be shouting for the dog to be "put down". IMHO it is as you say - no difference.

I hate these euphemisms although for convenience and out of laziness I know I'm guilty of it myself, particularly of using PTS.

It isn't "put down", you are not speaking of placing the dog on the floor, you are speaking of killing him.

Let's all try to start calling it what it is and not sanitising it, shall we?

BTW, KnittedBeast, that isn't a personal attack, as I said I say it too, just that you were the last to use the euphemism and so I picked up on your comment.

Freesias - "I personally believe the dogs do get a taste of blood and the power it brings".

I can't believe that as a vet you would hold such an idiotic, unfounded view. It is probably a very good thing that you are not practising at the moment.

Why is it such an idiotic view that a dog can get a taste for blood? why do people so consistently forget that they are animals with primal instincts?

Last I heard they didn't live on a diet of carrots and brocolli.