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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Need advice badly!!!

383 replies

worriedandneedsomeadvice · 25/04/2011 16:54

I've just been at the garden centre with my 7 month DD and my 4 year old cocker spaniel.

A man bent down to stroke my dog before I could tell him not to and my dog went for him. Badly. His hand was dripping blood immediately.

I apologised and apologised and my BIL (the manager of the garden centre) took over to make sure the man was okay so I could take the dog (and DD) out.

He's been a bit growly lately but has never done anything like this before.

I'm shaking. I don't know what's going to happen and I don't know what to do.

He's fantastic with my DD, gentle as a lamb with her but as I said, lately he's been growly, especially at children he doesn't know so I've made sure to keep him on a lead and mostly just at home. But he loves BIL so I always take him to the garden centre when we go...

I can't believe this has happened. I don't know what to do. I'm waiting for BIL to call me, but the mans hand looked terrible... Absolutely dripping with blood. It was so quick.

Please give me some advice if you can??

OP posts:
Tsil · 25/04/2011 17:25

Worried - you need to try and find why he has done this. You may need to take him to training if he is becoming possessive of you or DD and muzzle him as well.

pink4ever · 25/04/2011 17:27

If I was this man I would have called the police.The dog does not have to be on the dangerous dogs act. If police refused to do anything then I would pursue legal action. Before I get flamed as someone who hates animals(or god forbid a cat lover) I had the same dog for 17 years.Family were devastated when he died.
You are responsible for your dogs behaviour. What if that had been your dd or a child that had approached you?. Sorry but I could not have a dog that did this in my house with my dcs. Dogs are lovely but at the end of the day they are animals-humans should come first.

BlingLoving · 25/04/2011 17:34

I agree with rhinestone. Your dog should not have bitten this man and you need to ensure it does not happen again by taking her to proper dog training. However, this sounds to me very much like a dog mistakenly defending itself and its family. I would never approach even the gentlest looking dog if it was out with its family, especially a small baby, withoutcarefully introducing myself to the dog and owner first. Dogs make fantastic companions because they do consider the people they live with family but strangers should respect that and you need teach your dog how to respond appropriately in public.

ChippingInLovesEasterEggs · 25/04/2011 17:34

Thanks Val :) I may not have all the answers but I know who to call in an emergency!!

ikilledBosco · 25/04/2011 17:39

I grew up with golden cockers - 1 of them had "red cocker rage" as our vet called it . He would bite anyone who came near him Sad we could only bring him outdoors with a muzzle on him .
In this case op i really think what happens to your dog now is in the mans hands as if he goes to the police he has the right to request that your dog is PTS .

GypsyMoth · 25/04/2011 17:41

really ?if a dog bites you then you can requaest its pts?? how is that enforced??

Vallhala · 25/04/2011 17:42

He doesn't have the right to request that the dog is killed, ikilledBosco... he has the right to press charges under the Dangerous Dogs Act.

It is for a court to decide if the dog is killed. Sadly they do that all too often.

moosemama · 25/04/2011 17:44

Its is entirely up to the guy that was bitten whether or not the police are involved. Unfortunately, under the Dangerous Dogs Act, any dog that bites can be termed 'dangerously out of control in a public place' and if that happens, its not good news at all. That said, if he was on a lead and had no history of biting, it would probably be considered that you did in fact have him largely under control and the likely outcome would be either a warning or a control order (so effectively the dog would have to be muzzled whenever he's in public).

Definitely book a vet appointment asap, explain what's happened and that you need him to have a full MOT. In particular I would want to know that his eyes and ears are ok. I have known a few cockers that react badly when they have ear infections that there owners were completely unaware of.

It is entirely possible that he's been unsettled by the arrival of the new baby and feels the need to protect more that he did. Effectively his pack structure has changed and he might feel the need to lead, as he's unsure what the score is. This doesn't mean he's dominant by the way, its more likely that he's confused and unsettled and trying to hold things together. You said he has been growly recently, so it does sound like, if not ill, he's stressed and anxious. You can do something about this by taking the responsibility off his shoulders. This can be done through basic training and proper handling, but as he's bitten, you should really do it with the help of a reputable trainer or behaviourist. Try the APBC to find one in your area.

In the meantime, yes, keep him away from your baby unless supervised and even then don't let him get closer than arms length, it only takes a second for him to snap and until you are sure of why his behaviour has changed its better safe than sorry.

A muzzle for when he has to be in public is also a good idea - ask your vet if they can try a couple on him as some dogs feel more comfortable with a mikki fabric tube style muzzle, (www.vetuk.co.uk/dog-accessories-dog-muzzles-c-628_810 muzzles]] ) while others prefer the baskerville type and you want him to feel comfortable.

Finally, you might find you are told by some people that he could have Rage Syndrome 'because he's a cocker'. I would dispute that. In fact rage syndrome is no more likely in cockers than quite a few other breeds of dog and is indicated by dogs that spontaneously attack (eg when they are sleeping and just leap up and bite for no apparent reason) rather than dogs that react to a perceived threat or due to some form of illness or pain. If you want to gen up there is some info about it from the Cocker Spaniel Club here.

Rhinestone · 25/04/2011 17:45

Dogs should certainly be trained on how to behave in public.

But unleashed humans can be very unpredictable and dangerous sometimes and should also be trained in how to behave properly - around people AND dogs.

proudfoot · 25/04/2011 17:45

He needs a muzzle until you can get to the vet and get an expert opinion on this.

I do think though that it is unfair to make the man the guilty party. Maybe not so clever to stroke a random dog but he was just trying to be nice, and it's your responsibility to muzzle if the dog is a danger.

moosemama · 25/04/2011 17:46

Gah - took so long to type all that I cross posted with everyone. Blush

CalamityKate · 25/04/2011 17:51

If you're going to use a muzzle, PLEASE don't use the fabric, tube-type ones. Use a basket one, so the dog can breathe/pant. The ones that prevent them opening their mouths at all are so cruel and in the hot weather are even worse.

Vallhala · 25/04/2011 17:52

Far more comprehensive advice there from moosemama. :)

See, you don't need me!

ikilledBosco · 25/04/2011 17:53

Sorry if i got that wrong Blush

Op i really hope things work out ok for you and your dog .

moosemama · 25/04/2011 17:54

Just realised my first paragraph sounded confused. As Val said, if the man did go to the police the dog would be in a very precarious position under the Dangerous Dogs Act. However, a good lawyer might be able to argue that the dog was not out of control, as you have witnesses who can attest to the fact that he was on the lead. Unfortunately too many courts have a nasty tendency to choose destruction over rehabilitation. The Dangerous Dogs Act is a horrible piece of draconian law and perilous for any dog that falls foul of it. I really hope the man was a dog lover who chooses not to take it any further.

Bottleofbeer · 25/04/2011 17:54

An old English sheepdog bit me in the face at age 3, he was PTS. It had been totally out of character and previously he'd been a great family dog.

Sorry, any dog that's bitten like that is a risk (well, they ALL are to some extent) and I wouldn't be prepared to have it anywhere near my children again.

PS I'm not saying euthanise him, just maybe re-home to someone who is capable of dealing with a dog with issues like that.

Rhinestone · 25/04/2011 17:57

I still dispute that the dog has 'issues'.

You and DD were approached by a man you didn't know, who made to touch the dog without warning. He entered the 'family personal space' without being invited. Not ok.

I think the dog will potentially be punished for something a human did wrong.

moosemama · 25/04/2011 17:59

I would usually agree Calamity, but my old guy absolutely hated baskervilles - they used to make him tense up, which then precipitating agitation and aggression. He was however a lot calmer with and totally willing to accept a mikki - that's why I said to try both and see how he reacts. I eventually had a baskerville style one made up in a softish leather by a saddler and he was totally fine with that, so I think it must have been the rigidity of the baskerville he objected to.

I wouldn't advocate muzzling any dog for prolonged periods of time, only for short periods when there is no other option.

Bottleofbeer · 25/04/2011 18:01

But the dog biting this man isn't the first indicator something is wrong - the OP said it's been "growly". I'm not saying it's always the dog's fault but it's bitten quite seriously and that is not a risk I'd be prepared to take around anyone, least of all, my kids.

albusmycat · 25/04/2011 18:02

What if it had been a child????

thefirstMrsDeVere · 25/04/2011 18:03

Dog needs to be checked by a vet. I didnt know about 'cocker rage' Val. V.interesting.

For what its worth, if I was bitten by a dog that I had approached without asking the owner, I would never go to the police.

I would be angry that the dog was not muzzled if he was a biter but the OP says it was out of character.

Keep away from your child though OP. A brain tumour of some other illness is a possibilty and a dog in pain is dangerous.

Sounds horrible for everyone involved.

The hospital wont call the police if someone has been bitten by a dog!

moosemama · 25/04/2011 18:05

Rhinestone, I see what you are saying - the guy was foolish, but he didn't deserve to get bitten.

The OP has already stated that the dog had been growling recently and that this was out of character, so clearly there is an issue of some sort.

Rhinestone · 25/04/2011 18:07

Bottle - of course that behaviour is undesirable when directed towards stupid but presumably harmless men in garden centres.

But there was once a time - long before garden centres, police forces and 'civilization' - when humans and dogs were evolving together, when having an animal with sharp teeth who would defend you against strangers was VERY desirable!

Dogs haven't changed - we have!

So no, the behaviour is not what we want now, but in a deep primeval sense, the dog did NOT do anything wrong and in fact did what it was supposed to do.

rainbowinthesky · 25/04/2011 18:08

My cocker spaniel growled at dd when he was 3 years old. Completely out of character.
We took him to the vets a day or so later as he didnt seem right and they checked him over and sent us on our way saying he was fine. As we were getting into our car, the vet rushed out and said he wanted to do one final check and sent a sample away for testing.
Dog got worse that night. Took him to out of hours vets as more aggressive etc. Turned out he had massive internal bleeding, swollen brain etc and nearly died several times of lung worm disease. Somehow he lived and is now 5 and never growled at anyone since.

GnomeDePlume · 25/04/2011 18:11

Before everyone starts off about the man having been a fool or whatever. This whole 'dont approach a dog' thing might be obvious to dog owners but isnt necessarily obvious to non-owners. The dog was unmuzzled in a public place therefore anyone can reasonably assume that the dog is safe. The man has had his hand badly mauled for making a reasonable mistake.

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