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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think it's highly unlikely that Jesus was dead when they put him into the tomb?

311 replies

cunexttuesonline · 24/04/2011 11:55

Crucified for 1 day with nails put in hands and feet and a spear wound on his side. I think he must have just been unconscious when put in the cave. Then 'came to' the day later and pushed the stone away with the sort of supehuman strength that, for example, women get whentheir babies are trapped under soemthing heavy. Guards outside tomb could have been sleeping or buggered off or something.

OP posts:
seeker · 27/04/2011 06:30

And my comments about some Christians being despeerate to be persecuted for their faith stands. This is the only possible explanation for the existence of the Christian Legal Centre.

buttonmoon78 · 27/04/2011 07:22

Never did get an answer did I seeker? Speaks volumes about your tolerance levels that you refuse to engage in a conversation about your children and their faith. Nor about the persecution you believe you face and which I am so desperate to face. At least you are able to withdraw your children from the parts of the education system which offend you. If you feel it's creeping into other areas, make a complaint. I am unable to exercise the same right.

Please stop casting stones here and allow me to practice my faith and I will continue to allow you to practice your non-faith. I can guarantee that if you knew me in RL you would know about my faith but my practising of it would not offend you in the slightest. I'm a perfectly logical, normal person not some boggle-eyed fanatic. As are many of the nondenominational people of faith who don't actually attend a place of worship yet still believe. As are many of those who do.

And I'm absolutely positive that children and animals are not desperate to be abused, nor are we desperate for them to be abused. Yet there are countless charities for their protection. People with various illnesses aren't desperate to be ill - yet there are charities for them too. The reason they are there is that nasty things happen. To good people and bad, old and young, fit and ill. Another in your arsenal of tastelesness.

Perhaps it's as well we don't know eachother in RL!

sausagesandmarmelade · 27/04/2011 07:41

And my comments about some Christians being despeerate to be persecuted for their faith stands.

Oh I see that you are now saying some christians (rather than generalising about ALL christians). Do you actually know any christians who are desperate to be persecuted?

Yes. of course you can withdraw you child, but why should your child be prevented from taking a full part i the life of the school because of this bizarre rule?

If a person truly thinks that participating in religious activities/assemblies at school is damaging to their child in some way then find an alternative school. So many parents moan about the religious aspect of assemblies but are too lazy (or lack the dedication) to either find another school or teach their child at home.

I think you are just here to antagonise...you're not interested in what anyone says, you think you have all the answers and you are using this forum as an outlet for your hatred/anger.

CurrySpice · 27/04/2011 07:47

I haven't seen any hatred or anger in serker's posts though the last 2 about her have been pretty personal Hmm and defensive tbh

buttonmoon78 · 27/04/2011 07:57

Get a grip curry! Wink There was nothing personal or defensive in my last post. We're having an adult exchange about difficult topics. Not a stand up fisticuffs fight.

We're going to have to agree to disagree, I know that, but as often, information seems to flow freely one way and not the other.

CurrySpice · 27/04/2011 08:18

Hear that? Thats the sound of me resting my case!

I'm off to get a grip Hmm

GrimmaTheNome · 27/04/2011 09:00

So many parents moan about the religious aspect of assemblies but are too lazy (or lack the dedication) to either find another school or teach their child at home.

Find another school == Emigrate (from Eng/Wales) or pay private fees. Homeschool - completely impossible for most parents (and unsuitable for most kids). Hmm Its not that big an issue (except, as noted, to people of some incompatible faith. Its just an annoying anachronism.

I don't think either atheists or christians are 'persecuted' in the UK, but there are many needless irritations. A secular society would remove a lot of these. As consideration of secular states shows (USA!!) 'secular' does not mean antireligious or irreligious. It means no discrimination for or against anyone by virtue of their religion. No fear or favour. In fact, true secularism is the best protection of religious freedom for all (rather than favouring one brand). It is not synonymous with 'militant atheism', despite the recent efforts of various religious leaders to deliberately conflate the terms.

Original poster
cunexttuesonline · 27/04/2011 09:10

I'm just thinking about the religious observcance inschools again and I think that when DS goes to school in 3 years (he is only 2 at the mo) I will ask for him to be withdrawn from any praying type jazz. maybe if all of us who are against praying in school/children being taught religion as FACT should exercise this right and then the govt will get a better idea of what people want?

OP posts:
xstitch · 27/04/2011 09:23

My dd's last teacher told her there was no such thing as God and only idiots prayed. I actually wish she had kept that opinion to herself because I had to spend a couple of hours getting dd to calm down and stop crying. She was really upset at a lot of her fathers family being called idiots. They are idiots btw but for a completely different reason. She is just a child though, and doesn't need to hear that.

LadyClariceCannockMonty · 27/04/2011 09:26

Wanksock, I agree, mass action is needed to make the government realise that separation of church and state in education would be a popular move.

And, FWIW (sorry, v late to this thread), I don't think expressing doubts about the Easter story on Easter Sunday is in 'poor taste' or that those with a religious faith were right to ask you to save the debate for another day. If someone's faith is true and strong, why would the comments of an unbeliever bother them so much? I know that people's differing opinions on the things I believe in don't change or diminish my feelings about them one jot. And the right to free speech is sacrosanct and something that we must exercise.

Snorbs · 27/04/2011 09:30

xstitch, it was wrong of that teacher to say that to your DD. I hope you took it up with the head.

On a similar note, when I was about 13 we were having a class discussion about beliefs. The teacher told me that I was "too young" to have decided that I was an atheist. I don't recall him saying the same to the children who said they were Roman Catholic or Sikh though.

xstitch · 27/04/2011 09:38

snorbs I didn't dare last time I complained to the school about something they reported me to SS for failing to agree with professional advice. She is at a different school now and I don't know what her teachers' personal religious views are and I am very happy with that as I believe they have the right to believe whatever they want in private.

GrimmaTheNome · 27/04/2011 10:48

My dd's last teacher told her there was no such thing as God and only idiots prayed.

That was completely out of order.

But then, so is teachers telling children that there is a God and engaging them in prayer. Which happens all the time.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

seeker · 27/04/2011 10:51

Sorry, buttonmoon, which question? I thought I had answered you. Ask again, and I promise to answer.

Unless it was the one about why don't I emigrate - which I thought was just a bit silly.

seeker · 27/04/2011 10:54

And the teacher who told a child that there was no god and only idiots prayed was very wrong. I think we alll agree that. So why can;t we agree that it equally wrong for a teacher to tell a child that God does exist and that prayer is essential for a fulfilled life?

HalfPastWine · 27/04/2011 11:01

Seeker may I ask you where you were educated? Was it in the UK, in a state school or faith school?

The reason I ask is that you are really against any teachings of God and I wonder where that has come from?

seeker · 27/04/2011 11:08

I am not against any teachings of God. I am against children being asked to participate in the practice of ANY faith at school.

As I have said repeatedly, I am very much in favour of learning about Christianity and other faiths. However, I don;t think school is a place for the practice of a particular faith, any more than a hospital or a government office is.

HalfPastWine · 27/04/2011 11:11

But that doesn't answer my question.

seeker · 27/04/2011 11:18

Ah, I thougth your question was connected with my supposed opposition to all the teachings of God, and when I explained that I wasn't it would be irrelevent.

I am educated to higher degree level. i was largely home educated, but attended several schools in 4 different countries , both state and private. And including one convent. Which, before you ask, was the most religiously tolerant of them all!. And two universities.

seeker · 27/04/2011 14:18

Oh, and in case I didn;t mention it before, my lack of faith is completely separate to my argument about worship in schools. Even if I were Christian I would not think it reasonable to impose my faith on other people. If I wanted my children to pray at school, i would expect them to do it, as Muslim children do "in their own time" so to speak.

MadHairbaaadonroyalweddingDay · 27/04/2011 16:24

I don't think you're being unreasonable at all seeker if you've experienced a teacher telling your dc that sort of stuff. I've never come across this at all, in any school I've worked in (one CofE) or any my dc have been to. The 'broadly Christian' acts of worship have been singing nice songs about Springtime and thinking for 30 seconds about the pretty flowers and being thankful for the nice bunnies. I have never come across a teacher telling a child that they will go to hell, or have to pray to the Christian God etc, and certainly as a teacher and committed Christian myself all I ever said was 'some people believe this, and some people believe that, and isn't it great we can all make up our own minds and we are all different, and lets have fun eating some Eid food/making Chinese New Year dragons/reading the Christmas story. And this is what is happening in most schools, in actual fact.

If what you say is happening, however, you have reason to have a word with the teacher/HT and express your discomfort. But above all, give your child credit, to make her or his own mind up about these things. You obviously nurture them and give them space to develop their own reasoning and tolerance, there is no reason to believe they will be 'damaged' by hearing such things. They are learning to form their own opinions, learning that different people think different things.

Bella - I personally couldn't give a flying fig about the Turin Shroud, and as for 'healing for a fee' ministries I would fight hard against the label 'Christian' being anywhere near such monstrosities.

Insomnia11 · 27/04/2011 16:50

"As I have said repeatedly, I am very much in favour of learning about Christianity and other faiths. However, I don't think school is a place for the practice of a particular faith, any more than a hospital or a government office is."

Completely agree, as someone baptised C of E, who got married in a church and who goes to church services occasionally. I also think Jesus's example of how to live sounds largely a very good one whether he was a prophet, son of God or a fairy tale. But someone who wasn't sure enough that I could stand up in church and say "Yes I believe Jesus was the son of God" and would like the kids to have their own choice so didn't get them baptised. And as someone who thinks there is something positive to be gained from people coming together as a group- to worship at the altar of a church or a football club, or do basket weaving or quilting - something that lifts your mind out of the mundane and allows you to reflect anyway!

I wouldn't like to see us in the same place as France - banning Burkas etc. But I would like to see:

  • No religious assemblies or worship of any kind at school - saying prayers at the end of the day etc
  • No faith schools
  • C of E should not be the "official religion"
  • There should be no Bishops in the House of Lords. Religions should have no say over running the country
  • No special favours or exemptions from legislation for religious groups
  • Religion and philosophy taught at school. R&P not RE.
  • Tolerance of religious beliefs where they don't cross the line with breaking the law/sheer idiocy/stirring up hatred of other religions and peoples i.e Westboro Baptist Church
  • Common sense!

I must say having sent my daughter to a state school I am surprised that the education she receives will be at all of a "broadly Christian character" in this day and age and that basically nothing has changed in 30 years.

GrimmaTheNome · 27/04/2011 20:58

Insomnia - Amen to that! Grin

seeker · 28/04/2011 06:14

I am prepared to be convinced that it is a coincidence, but I do find it interesting that these threads always seem to go quiet at this point.

It's almost as if people who believe that all children should be expected to be nominal Chriatians before they can participate fully in the life of a State school actually know that this is an indefensible position.

Animation · 28/04/2011 07:14

"these threads always seem to go quiet at this point."

(smile)

Seeker - your thoughts on this are very refreshing!