to thing that having child number 5 when living in a small 2 bed flat is unfair to all the children.

[byanymeans]

I totally understand that it is in all honesty none of my business how many kids people choose to have, as long as the parents can provide from them. However I really do find it a bit hard to get my head around how one family of 4 kids 2 adults could fit into a 2 bed flat before but last week they came home with baby number 5.

I just don't get how the parents feel this arrangement of 4 kids (oldest child is 13, some boy some girls) sharing a bed room is healthy. They must have no real play space or personal space. I just don't understand why you would want to bring another child into that?

I feel so sorry for the new couple who live below to as the noise from so many feet run around must drive them mad. I don't think that any one has lasted more the 9 months in the flat bellow for years.

I just don't understand they see nothing wrong this having still more without moving it?s not fair on any of the kids.

Ok... so let the next person who posts here be one that has never JUDGED anybody for anything, let alone posted it all over AIBU...

So many judgemental posters here picking fault with a judgemental OP... ;)

I understand where you're coming from OP, I always understand Cory's grandmother... it's a question of differing standards of what's suitable and appropriate.

Lol at ' bedrooms in 2 bed flats are always small'. One of ours is 18ft by 18ft with 7 windows and a 13ft high ceiling. We could triple bunk 6 dcs in there and still have more floor space than most dcs!

This thread is MN gone mad.
I love the way youre all slagging off the OP as if shes in the wrong!

You all know that if you lived next to the family with 5 kids in a two bed flat youd be making a cats bum mouth, not waving happily whiksi thinking 'ahh each to their own'
I hate this false shit, youre so fake.

Wonder what David Attenborough and Chris Packham would make of this thread

www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5iVg5l7Z-y8GPCGloD7Q1J9Tir_5g?docId=N0404301301991592287A

not bothered at all about the housing circumstances really but for all those who are being holier than thou on making assumptions, of course you all do, we all have by discussing this for a start!

My dad, one of 7 kids grew up in a very small house. He HATED it. It was shite and had a really bad lasting affect on his relationships with his siblings. They couldn't get far enough away from each other.

But I suppose one can't really extrapolate that it is therefore a crap option for every family. I know it would drive me insane though.

It sounds like hell but I don't suppose the kids know any different. If it's a council flat, I thought if there were more kids (especially different sexes) than could comfortably share rooms, they had to move them to a bigger property? Isn't that why we always read in the papers about asylum seekers with 12 kids that live in mansions in Mayfair? Maybe they needed the fifth to qualify?

I have say i had the choice between moving to a 5 bedroomed house and buying a serviced apartment we could use all summer and at weekends too, I chose the latter, bigger house equals more housework, if it's small it has to be tidy.

actually this sort of thing is probably more common than it has been for two generations due to rising property prices/benefit cuts etc. In some parts of the UK this seems shockingly overcrowded, but if you live in London it's pretty much the way it goes. I know what you mean in that my instinctive reaction was to think "god, that's seriously cramped", but people live like this is most of the world and have lived like this for most of history. People get by and as long as the children are fed, clean, educated and loved, I don't see that its a disaster.

I come from a big European city, where space is at a premium, therefore I am not shocked by 7 people living in a 2 bedrooms flat.

On the other hand, I wouldn't have 5 children, even if I owned a mega villa. Each to their own, I suppose.

The flat is council (we all are apart from under there flat) so I guess there will be re-housed in the end but at minute she 'just wants to carry on having more kids' In her words not mine as that she proclaimed to the street just after finding out number 5 was on its way. It just does not seem fair on all the kids.

Of course YANBU OP. People seem to have this ridiculous sense of entitlement regarding having children they can ill afford/provide for and no it isnt fair to live like this- the parents on here who clearly have too many kids than they can house will make ridiculous justifications such as they are loved etc. Thats as maybe but YOU are selfish bringing children up in such conditions purely because you want more.

Well I can kind of see her point if she knows she is going to get a council house and wants all those children then she might as well get on with it, it's not like they ask you how many children you would like to have on the form and then find you something suitable for the children you plan to have once you've moved in.
Chicken and egg but it's gamble as to whether she'll actually get the house I guess.

I had five in a 3 bedroom until recently. As one of the was a temp foster child DS1 slept on the sofa.

Apart from that (he didnt mind BTW as temp fc was his lady love) it was fine.

It does depend on the age differences, genders, layout of the home IMO.

I have a friend with five in a two bedroom flat and I wonder how they all manage. She has two teenage girls, another two younger girls and a primary age boy.

Now i have experienced teendom in my own children I think it must be quite
hard to be crammed in at that age. If the children are all close together in age I dont think its as much of an issue.

When you live in a small space you can get very creative with how you use it and become very tidy.

My three youngest boys will soon be sharing a room. I have a bunk with a double bed at the bottom. Chances are they will all be in that as DS1 &3 already prefer to sleep together.

I may have a spare room (not sure, all complicated) but I wont put DS2 in that until he is ready. He likes being with his brothers.

However hard we might imagine to be to live in a certain way I dont think its our business. Making them sound like a problem family just because they have five kids in a 2 bedroom is a bit off IMO.

YANBU

DSD's mum lived in a small (1 box room and one small double) 2 bed flat with 4 children, 2 large dogs and 2 adults.

It was crap, dsd had no space anywhere to get peace to do her homework in or even just be quiet for a while. Her schoolwork was suffering, all the kids were knackered as no one got enough sleep with night waking babies as well as dogs barking every time someone went to the loo etc.
SS were involved for a few issues, the overcrowding was an issue they addressed as it was having such a wide impact on the children at school, socially etc.

They are now housed in a 4 bed and it is so much better for all of them. Everything has improved from educational attainment through to social behaviour. Although mum has gone on to have another baby now, it's not so much of an issue any more in terms of space.

I don't think it is fair on anyone to be that overcrowded if you have a choice about it.
If you have an ill child or adult where do they go to get peace? Or a night waking baby?
I think there are different degrees of overcrowding, DSD's home then was teeny, they had to have dinner in shifts because there simply wasn't the space to sit down, the kitchen was a tiny galley kitchen with no space for a fridge.
There are two bed flats that have huge rooms and good outdoor space etc.
But if the two bed is tiny and has no outdoor space then quality of life is affected in my opinion.

It's noones's bloody business but theirs! I have 7 kids aged 1-14 in a 4 bed house as that's all we can afford. My son has his own room as he's the only boy, my 12 and 14 yr old share, and my 9 year old (happily) shares with the 3 and 4 yr olds. Baby is in cot in our room. My kids are happy, close, healthy, and have a better standard of living generally for having a smaller home; if our mortgage was higher through buying a bigger house they would have to go without all the things they enjoy. You shouldnt judge others it's unfair as you don't know their circumstances.

YABU.

My father grew up in a home with 5 children and 2 beds. It was all they could afford.

They were all happy, healthy, went to university and very close (2 of the siblings have since died).

This idea that people need all this 'personal space' or 'play space' is ridiculous and part of the reason so many took on mortgages they are now struggling to afford.

There are 3 kids in this flat and there's a flat downstairs. I can't live my life around that. If we could afford a house we would, but this is what we can afford and it's clean and secure. We're grateful for that.

A friend has 5 in a two-bed house. Her kids are all great.

So what?

It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.

I shared a room with 2brothers 1 sister when I was growing up.

I hated it, never had my own space or privacy and was too embarassed to have friends stay over.

I was so envious of friends that had their own room or only 1 sibling to share with.

I only think its unreasonable if the children suffer because of it or if the parents moan that they don't have enough money to buy or rent a bigger house for their children. In which case, I would suggest its better to get the bigger house before expanding their family...

I would not do it to my dcs. It is not so much the personal space as having enough space and quiet to do homework and study for exams. Some children would be happy or would not know better in a loud, cramped, chaotic environment but some would not thrive at all.

It depends on the personality of the child. I know even if I was loved, fed and clothed, I would be deeply unsettled living in such conditions. I would also be disturbed if my parents decided to produce sibling after sibling without regard to their strained resources.