to thing that having child number 5 when living in a small 2 bed flat is unfair to all the children.

[byanymeans]

I totally understand that it is in all honesty none of my business how many kids people choose to have, as long as the parents can provide from them. However I really do find it a bit hard to get my head around how one family of 4 kids 2 adults could fit into a 2 bed flat before but last week they came home with baby number 5.

I just don't get how the parents feel this arrangement of 4 kids (oldest child is 13, some boy some girls) sharing a bed room is healthy. They must have no real play space or personal space. I just don't understand why you would want to bring another child into that?

I feel so sorry for the new couple who live below to as the noise from so many feet run around must drive them mad. I don't think that any one has lasted more the 9 months in the flat bellow for years.

I just don't understand they see nothing wrong this having still more without moving it?s not fair on any of the kids.

But you're jumping in with your own example, not the one in the op. Five kids ranging from baby to a 13 year old, mix of boys and girls, 2 bed normal size (ie UK small-fits-all).

We're not talking about 3 under-6s in one big room.

The reason why they had more is because they still think labour are in charge and are waiting for their 4 bed council home and are on income support no doubt

Keep on having babies like rats and wi

Scream at the top of their voice how hard it is to be over crowded

oh wow Maypole... you know them then?

there's clearly a world of difference between having 3 or 4 pre-schoolers, both sexes or same sex, sharing a room (particularly if it's only going to be for a few years til the family extend/move to a larger home) and 3 or 4 teenagers in the same room.

Or like the person I mentioned, who has 2 under 6 and a mature teenager sharing one room.

Who me? It would be 4 between, 10 and 2ish sharing. In a two bed house.

So not that different.

I don't think we can really know what the family'd intentions are, because the OP clearly doesn't like and thinks badly of them. Maybe they're moving next week, who knows. Maybe they do sleep in the lounge and just don't tell everyone about it.

I just think it's an odd thing to judge about because there are so many qualifiers for children's quality of life why obsess about one of them if the rest seem fine? And if it's only temporary - which it still could be - it's all a bit irrelevant anyway.

is it really so hard to believe that the children may actually LIKE sharing with their siblings and being with them?

I think that boys and girls over 8 shouldn't share bedrooms as that is the age many girls begin to start periods / need bras (and get embarrassed easily) so single sex bedrooms are appropriate for 'tweens' and above.
At aged 13 and above it's better not to share with young children - teenagers go to bed late, have mates round, have lots of studying to do and tend to have possessions that younger children could damage. My parents, g/parents shared beds (let alone rooms!) with their (up to 12!) siblings, but life was very different. They left school by 14, and had few clothes or possessions, and didn't have (yuck...) daily showers / hair wash / beauty regimes. None of them have had more than 3 children themselves - this is also true of those of my friends who grew up in (very poor) large families.

I don't think it's an odd thing to judge. We make these sorts of judgements about our own lives so we're just pondering on others in similar situations.

And the op says she knows it's really none of her business.

i was thinking of joining the WI, but i'm not sure i want to if they have babies like rats.

YANBU OP I totally agree. I only know a couple of families (personally) with more than 3 because the majority of people I know don't think it's right or responsible to have more than that and couldn't provide for them financially or emotionally in a way that means all their needs are met. I have 2 i know if we had anymore we'd been stressed out and unhappy, I know that's just us but it seems to be a view shared by most of our peers.

And as for the "good" old days, they weren't that good,people lived in appalling conditions and were exposed to all sorts of horribleness.

The majority of families I meet through work have 4+ children and have housing/deprivation issues. the children have behaviour/emotional problems, the parents can't meet their needs yet they just keep on having "just one more". This isn't my opinion this is fact.

I don't see how the woman weould recognise herself from this post. This sort of thing happens all the time on message boards.

I've known a few families who have lived in what could easily be considered overcrowded houses. And I am certain there are many many more who do so. It's not particularly unusual.

anot9her thought.... how would not having the 5th child help?
would it mean a third bedroom magically appeared?
do you think that if this person fell pregnant accidentally that she should have just had a termination rather than having one more sharing?

maybe they don't have the option of moving, but still want a big family. maybe their eldest children have said they're happy sharing and don't mind?

minx there are plenty of other families with 4+ children who DON'T have behavioural issues and whose parents CAN look after them very well

you cannot judge ALL large families based on the ones you meet through work.

it's a bit like how consultants tend to opt for c-sections because all they ever see are the births that go wrong or the high-risk mums... they miss out on the fact that the vast majority of vaginal deliveries are not problematic.

must be fact cos someone once met someone like it who they knew nothing about.

actually as a child i always wanted more siblings. i was one of 2. so clearly 2 is very detrimental to a child as well. fact

I have 6 kids but before we bought the house we are in now, our 3 DC shared a room which was adequate but not ideal as we had 2 boys and a girl. We were lucky enough to be able to buy a 7 bed house when I got pregnant with number 4 ....
so we decided that as we had extra rooms that we would start fostering ...we had a sibling group of 3 placed with us on a permanent basis so we had to have our birth children share because SS want all looked after children to have their own rooms ....
then I got pregnant again with number 5 ... wasn't an issue because he was in our room - it did become an issue when I had number 6 and all our birth children were sharing rooms and wanted to know why they couldn't have their own rooms - we had 9 children at the time

It was hard to deal with tears and tantrums but subsequently some of our looked after children have grown up and moved out so we have 2 spare rooms but I cannot persuade my 7 yr old son to move out of the bedroom he has always shared with his little sister grrrrr

'I've known a few families who have lived in what could easily be considered overcrowded houses. And I am certain there are many many more who do so. It's not particularly unusual.'

I know three families personally whom I can count who are overcrowded like this.

Pffft!
I am one of five children and for a long time we lived in a two up two down with an outside bathroom and it was BLOODY LOVELY thank you very much :-)
later we gained an extra bedroom and an indoor bathroom but honestly .... space, money, all of these things are marginal really. Love and happiness and family life are not dependent on them AT ALL. We all turned out happy, healthy and with five long lasting marriages between us. We are all still incredibly close and supportive and go on holiday together.
So - PFFFT.