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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that by marrying and procreating feminists are potentially going against their feminist ideals

205 replies

hardhatdonned · 14/04/2011 20:13

For you Eggy :o

OP posts:
NormanTebbit · 14/04/2011 21:10

Cannot make sense of op's arguments but I hate 'uni', it's university not yooni.

LeninGregg · 14/04/2011 21:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EggyFucker · 14/04/2011 21:10

I will back up my points, when you back up your original post

my point is always very transparent

is yours ?

do you even know what your point is ?

K999 · 14/04/2011 21:10

But you asked a question about "effective mother" but yet you cant explain what you mean? Confused

hardhatdonned · 14/04/2011 21:10

So you are striving for a meritocratic society then?

OP posts:
EggyFucker · 14/04/2011 21:11

it's crap innit, lenin

I think I will go back to carpet munching

much more interesting

Skimty · 14/04/2011 21:11

Okay, having a very traditional marriage where the wife stays at home and obeys her husband without question and raises her children in strict gender stereotypical roles would not be compataible with feminism. Is that what you want to hear?

yama · 14/04/2011 21:11

Can't say I know anyone my age who has done as you say:

"To marry a person and take traditional vows you are "honouring and obeying" to have children, to parent in the traditional sense is to follow the patriarchal ideal, as has already been mentioned."

Feminist or not.

In fact, the Minister who married us said that he didn't agree with 'obey' and the only rule he had with vows was that there was to be parity.

tabulahrasa · 14/04/2011 21:11

Can I be a postfeminist and an ineffective mother instead?

hardhatdonned · 14/04/2011 21:12

My point is and always has been clear Eggy. Yes i do know what my point is as do others who are quite happily posting on this thread too.

K999 ok an effective mother one who raises their child to be happy and content and fulfil their potential.

Although i know having now said that you're going to come at me with the 'buts' :)

OP posts:
PoppyDoolally · 14/04/2011 21:12

Skimty Thu 14-Apr-11 21:03:44 and Carminaburana Thu 14-Apr-11 21:03:48

In solidarity, sisters! Brew

LeninGregg · 14/04/2011 21:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hardhatdonned · 14/04/2011 21:13

My point being the traditional vows are as they are but interpretation is free will on that we are agreed.

OP posts:
JockTamsonsBairns · 14/04/2011 21:14

I've posted on this thread, and I'm afraid I've no idea what your argument is OP Confused

AyeRobot · 14/04/2011 21:14

I can't see your point for all the straw men. And women.

Skimty · 14/04/2011 21:14

Poppy - In fact, at the risk of sounding too fawning, I did love your description of the process of giving birth. Made me feel quite empowered!!

LeninGregg · 14/04/2011 21:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EggyFucker · 14/04/2011 21:14

< sits on laurels >

K999 · 14/04/2011 21:14

No "buts" just delighted that I am an "effective mother".....

PiousPrat · 14/04/2011 21:15

"Ok then let me put it another way would i be hard pushed to find a feminist that is a stay at home mum for instance."
(Quoted from page 1, I am late to the party, sorry)

I would guess that a SAHM is, if anything, MORE likely to be a feminist given that her daily routine is likely to be affected in so many more obvious ways by the current inequality between the sexes than a full time working mother, or an unemployed childless woman for example.

For starters, women's wages tend to be lower than their male colleagues, so even if the couple are forward thinking about gender roles, it is more likely to be the mother at home because a) it isn't so much of a drop in income since his is higher because he is a man and b) maternity benefits are so much better than paternity benefits (not saying either are as good as they should be yet though) so she can get longer off without it affecting her career or their income.

As an example, my sister and BIL do exactly the same job for the same company. They met at the same uni, graduated the same year with the same class of degree. His wages are 15% odd higher than hers, ergo she is the SAHP. That doesn't mean she isn't a feminist for not fighting society to see the inequalities, it means she is being a mother and putting her families needs first.

Each family that is fortunate enough to be able to afford to have a SAHP makes the decision that is best for them, financially. My father was the SAHP when I was a kid, because my mother had better qualifications and could command a higher wage, whereas he had worked on the rigs for years and had to give it up to be around for his family so taken a massive hit on his earning potential by switching fields. Likewise, I have been a SAHM to my 2 DS's for the last 10 years (between uni) because I was a single parent. Not much choice there. But now I am pregnant again to a new partner, I will still be the SAHP because he earns far more than my potential income will be. That doesn't make my father a better feminist than me because he bucked 'tradition' while I cow down to it. It just means we both made a decision based on our personal circumstances.

I always find it interesting in threads such as this that feminist seems to automatically equal female. Surely that undermines some pretty basic tenets of what feminism is about?

Have I been wrong all my life in assuming that a feminist is simply someone who sees the inequality between sees and seeks to redress the balance a bit, regardless of their own gender?

Has Bill Bailey been steering me wrong? Shock
tinyurl.com/3e6fyay

Skimty · 14/04/2011 21:15

I have no idea what your point is HHD.

PoppyDoolally · 14/04/2011 21:16

'To marry a person and take traditional vows you are "honouring and obeying" to have children, to parent in the traditional sense is to follow the patriarchal ideal'

Erm, when I got married, we specifically wished to have included a reference to equality and respect as being key to a successful marriage. No 'honour and obey', thank you very much mate. so there! Grin

yama · 14/04/2011 21:16

Reinforcing 'traditional' roles actually encourages female children to limit their options in life so I would say that not being a feminist is ineffective parenting.

EggyFucker · 14/04/2011 21:16

That stoopid bolshy Monroe is on telly right now

It's not that you have to watch is it, len ?

EggyFucker · 14/04/2011 21:17

Monroe is anti-feminist

so there