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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that by marrying and procreating feminists are potentially going against their feminist ideals

205 replies

hardhatdonned · 14/04/2011 20:13

For you Eggy :o

OP posts:
PoppyDoolally · 14/04/2011 20:42

FFS

'hardhatdonned Thu 14-Apr-11 20:23:13 Ok then let me put it another way would i be hard pushed to find a feminist that is a stay at home mum for instance. My understanding of feminism is to strive for women to be equal to men (although i now believe this has tipped slightly too far the other way but thats by the by) in all terms, emotionally, socially and economically. But wouldn't some aspects of being a parent contradict these ideals?'

I AM A STAUNCH FEMINIST. I am a stay at home mother to a beautiful son.

I think you will find that feminism seeks to achieve equality in opportunity between the sexes and for women to have the choice how to live their lives rather than to be restricted in life choices/oppressed by their sex.

I choose to stay at home. I have the freedom to do so. Should I have chosen to return to work after maternity leave I would have had the freedom to have done so. This is feminism in action. Breastfeeding and natural labour to boot.

It is so ignorant to equate feminists with childless dungaree wearing lesbians. Yes there are lesbian feminists. But there are also feminists who are mothers, who love their men and their sons. This does not undermine a woman's feminist sensibilities in any way shape or form.

FWIW I would argue that there are a huge number of women who work out of the home out of financial necessity rather than choice - ie those who would absolutely love to be able to stay at home to raise their children. Until society enables those women to do so - thus achieving true choice - feminism has a long way to go.

Equally, those women who choose to return to paid work/careers should also be utterly supported in that decision.

Its feminism, stupid. Wink

Original poster
hardhatdonned · 14/04/2011 20:42

Skimty it's because i cba with typing out long words after a long day typing can we have a short form for potentially? :)

OP posts:
Original poster
hardhatdonned · 14/04/2011 20:44

Carmina, no i really don't agree with unions and you could argue that i do need one seeing as how redundancy is looming in my work place. But it's negotiating with unions that often forces the hand of employers into making redundancies. If people accepted cuts in terms of salaries and benefits they could keep their jobs if they're insistent they keep everything as is redundancys will happen. But thats by the by.

This is about feminism :o my other political leanings can wait :o

OP posts:
LeninGregg · 14/04/2011 20:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
hardhatdonned · 14/04/2011 20:45

At no point have i said that feminists are dungaree wearing lesbians. I believe I have stated my own mother is one and she is the furthest from that stereotype you can get. :o

OP posts:
Skimty · 14/04/2011 20:46

It's okay, the u is missing from my keyboard so it takes me ages to paste it in and I can't keep up! so shortcuts are fine by me

I don't really understand what you wnat to know/achieve by this thread - if I read another one that has inspired this one would I have a greater understanding?

Flowerpotmummy · 14/04/2011 20:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
hardhatdonned · 14/04/2011 20:47

In the UK, yes, i believe that to be the case in a significant MAJORITY (not all) but a significant majority of lives, yes. I'm not ignorant or foolish to believe this would be the case for everyone. Sweeping generalisations are idiotic at best.

I feel we're as fairly represented as we can be when we're making as many demands on business and the government as we are in terms of maternity rights.

Sexual violence is always going to go more one way than the other but thats not to say it doesnt happen the other way too and in increasing levels.

OP posts:
Original poster
hardhatdonned · 14/04/2011 20:48

I dunno what i'm trying to achieve skimty other than a discussion based out of flippancy from another thread and proving to Eggy i can stand up for myself :o

OP posts:
Flowerpotmummy · 14/04/2011 20:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EggyFucker · 14/04/2011 20:50

HHD, you don't have to prove anything to me

I am an internet sprite, a nobody

stop wasting your time on us

you should go and give your husband a blow job, quick-smart

Original poster
hardhatdonned · 14/04/2011 20:51

So in essence mothers deserve more of a choice than other adults (parents or not) because it's our right to have more freedom of choice than anyone else? Is that what you are suggesting poppy?

As i've already said a lot of the arguments stem from the principles of "we're all equal but some are more equal than others" and we had a discussion about civil rights groups and activists around this point at uni (many moons ago!) which became quite enthralling!

OP posts:
PoppyDoolally · 14/04/2011 20:51

I should add to my rant that I wholehearted believe that childbirth and breastfeeding really are a feminist issue.

Until some feminists (and remember I count myself as a feminist) and some non-feminists (including men and the medical profession) alike stop demeaning the miraculous achievement of women in growing babies in their wombs, birthing them in what is one of the most awesome displays of inner strength and selflessness, and feeding them from the breast in all its mammalian glory, things will not improve for equality of opportunity.

One of the tragedies of feminism is that it has been misconstrued to the point where this fantastic feat of woman is undermined and undervalued. Women are not equal to men: men are not equal to women. Men do not grow, birth and nurture their babies. What a wonderful difference - something for women to be proud of.

Equality of opportunity is what matters. Men should have the freedom to care for their children and stay at home should they wish. Women should have the freedom to continue their career. But women should also have the freedom to stay at home and raise their children and support their partners should they so wish. SO long as they are not compelled by anyone, or by society by reason of their vaginas, that is what is important.

Skimty · 14/04/2011 20:51

I do actually think that feminism and other political leanings go hand in hadn I'm afraid.

It's easier to have an equal relationship when you are educated and have the potential to financial independence whether you it or not. Most of the women I know are in this position and so it would be easy to look around me and say everything is fine. However, my mother is a SW in child protection and a lot of the things she tells me about the way women who are not in that position are treated by the men in their lives make me despair.

squeakytoy · 14/04/2011 20:52

The best one had to be part of a post yesterday, when someone said they had a colleague who was not a "mother" she was a "co-parent"....utterly ridiculous.

Original poster
hardhatdonned · 14/04/2011 20:52

That you are Eggy, that you are.

Ah see i don't have a husband, thats a very presumptious statement you made there :)

OP posts:
LeninGregg · 14/04/2011 20:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Carminaburana · 14/04/2011 20:53

HHD - unions are there to serve it's members - it's the members who vote to strike and the union leaders act for them. Bob Crow ( for example ) can not force his union members to strike - they tell him!

But you're right, this isn't about unions - sorry.

Original poster
hardhatdonned · 14/04/2011 20:54

I actually agree with your last post 100% there Poppy and i wouldn't call myself a feminist at all.

We are, in my humble opinion, moving away from being a male centric society to being a female society. That doesn't make it a bad thing but does it mean that men are entitled to become "maleists" if they so wish?

OP posts:
Original poster
hardhatdonned · 14/04/2011 20:55

Yes and sadly union members tend to not see the bigger picture more about protecting the self (and quite rightly so) but to protect the self sometimes you have to protect the whole.

OP posts:
LeninGregg · 14/04/2011 20:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Skimty · 14/04/2011 20:56

I'm just confused. I originally thought you were saying that you couldn't be a feminist and a parent and now it seems to be that feminism is pointless.

Poppy, my DH hates his job and would rather stay at home. I think that it is not the sole preserve of mother to feel that way. I think biological essentialism has too often been used against women to be used without care.

Original poster
hardhatdonned · 14/04/2011 20:57

Sorry i've been trying to stay on point Skimty but the thread appears to have rapidly evolved into a whole other discussion!

OP posts:
PoppyDoolally · 14/04/2011 20:58

'hardhatdonned Thu 14-Apr-11 20:51:13
So in essence mothers deserve more of a choice than other adults (parents or not) because it's our right to have more freedom of choice than anyone else? Is that what you are suggesting poppy?'

NOT AT ALL!

But we are talking here about feminism, no? As it happens I believe every person should have the freedom to be masters/mistresses of their own destiny and that merit and talent should reign. What saddens me is that we do indeed live in a society where, for example, young black men are more likely to end up in prison than university, where young working class white boys are the most educationally disadvantaged of all, and where sexual violence is disturbingly prevalent in respect of young women.

EggyFucker · 14/04/2011 20:58

banging on about your "uni" discussions is a bit derivative, HHD

you went to uni

big wow

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