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AIBU?

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Original poster

to think that by marrying and procreating feminists are potentially going against their feminist ideals

205 replies

hardhatdonned · 14/04/2011 20:13

For you Eggy :o

OP posts:
SomethingSuper · 14/04/2011 20:59

People who are negatively impacted by cultural forces such as patriachy are often most invested in it as they have internalised it's negative message. Women in countries where Female Genital Mutilation is/was common are often vocal in defending it. This is not because they enjoy being horrifically mutiliated and are thrilled to go on to mutiliate their daughters, but because they have internalised misogyny. There's the same low-level thing going on with all the 'hairy leg/men-hating/rape-shouters' blah blah blah thing that some women do about feminists.

Original poster
hardhatdonned · 14/04/2011 21:00

So it's not the gender side of things that are most problematic to you then it's the meritocratic nature of our society that is more the issue?

Going back on point though can you be an effective mum and an effective feminist? :) or can they contradict one another?

OP posts:
PoppyDoolally · 14/04/2011 21:01

'Skimty Thu 14-Apr-11 20:56:46
... Poppy, my DH hates his job and would rather stay at home. I think that it is not the sole preserve of mother to feel that way. I think biological essentialism has too often been used against women to be used without care.'

Which is the very reason why I said in my post that 'Equality of opportunity is what matters. Men should have the freedom to care for their children and stay at home should they wish. Women should have the freedom to continue their career. But women should also have the freedom to stay at home and raise their children and support their partners should they so wish. SO long as they are not compelled by anyone, or by society by reason of their vaginas, that is what is important.'

Original poster
hardhatdonned · 14/04/2011 21:01

And you're an inarticulate feminist Eggy :) i can cope with this bit of knowledge i have about you if you can cope with the bit of knowledge you have about me

OP posts:
LeninGregg · 14/04/2011 21:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AyeRobot · 14/04/2011 21:03

Did you spend a lot of time being exposed to separatist radical feminists in your youth, hhd?

And how are being an effective mum and an effective feminist mutually exclusive? I know you're itching to tell us.

Skimty · 14/04/2011 21:03

Poppy, I have to say that I agree wholeheartedly with your views on the relationships between the sexes and the way that (I believe) that we have be made to feel that the thing which definitely separates us from men has been so derided. Sorry, that was supposed to be on the end of my last post but I type pretty slowly at the best of times!

Carminaburana · 14/04/2011 21:03

Unions are all about seeing the bigger picture - you all stick together and fight for future rights as well as current ones. Male union members will strike for the rights of pregnant women - it's completely unselfish.

You clealy haven't got a clue....

K999 · 14/04/2011 21:03

Whats an "effective mother"?? Confused

EggyFucker · 14/04/2011 21:04

I just know you want to please me, HHD Smile

You started a thread for me, after all

Before you know it, we will be reaching agreement and hugging (and acknowledging irony and piss-taking)

Skimty · 14/04/2011 21:05

So, I didn't manage to get that in before you replied!

I have to say that I do agree with you (especially after rereading yor first post)

Original poster
hardhatdonned · 14/04/2011 21:05

I didn't say they're mutually exclusive did I :o I just feel that they are potentially contradictory in nature.

To marry a person and take traditional vows you are "honouring and obeying" to have children, to parent in the traditional sense is to follow the patriarchal ideal, as has already been mentioned.

I feel that they could be at odds with one another.

OP posts:
Original poster
hardhatdonned · 14/04/2011 21:06

I have no idea K999 does anyone? :)

I don't do hugs Eggy but thanks for the offer :)

OP posts:
EggyFucker · 14/04/2011 21:06

there is no compulsion to follow the "patriarchal ideal"

it isn't bound in law

did you realise that ?

K999 · 14/04/2011 21:06

You don't have to take "traditional vows".....

Original poster
hardhatdonned · 14/04/2011 21:06

Carmina how can you protect the rights of people when the business has gone bust because of the unions actions?

OP posts:
BelleDameSansMerci · 14/04/2011 21:07

We have to breed to make more feminists...

MirandaGoshawk · 14/04/2011 21:07

Poppy says: I AM A STAUNCH FEMINIST. I am a stay at home mother to a beautiful son.
I second that; I am also a staunch feminist. It makes my blood boil when women don't value the fight that women have had to fight in the past, but are content to reap the rewards. But I had twins, and the child care costs just didn't justify me going back to work. In fact, the truth is that I didn't want to put my dch in childcare. Doesn't make me less of a feminist.

Original poster
hardhatdonned · 14/04/2011 21:07

Yes I am aware of this Eggy and K999

How about amusing me for a moment.

OP posts:
EggyFucker · 14/04/2011 21:07

too many Smile

it's giving the impression there is no brains behind the smile

LeninGregg · 14/04/2011 21:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
hardhatdonned · 14/04/2011 21:08

Too many evasive posts Eggy. Indicating you are unable to back up your points.

OP posts:
Original poster
hardhatdonned · 14/04/2011 21:09

I believe the scenario of traditional vows is more common place than a scenario of DIY vows.

OP posts:
PoppyDoolally · 14/04/2011 21:09

'hardhatdonned Thu 14-Apr-11 21:00:39
So it's not the gender side of things that are most problematic to you then it's the meritocratic nature of our society that is more the issue?

Going back on point though can you be an effective mum and an effective feminist? or can they contradict one another?'

Surely that's the very point. Merit regardless of genitals?

And yes, you absolutely can be an effective mum and an effective feminist. The two are not mutually exclusive - as I have said, so long as I am a mum out of choice (which I am) and choose the lifestyle I lead (which I do) then I am not being oppressed personally into staying at home. I choose not to return to my career (I could have returned in a flash).

But you do beg the question 'what is an effective feminist'. If it is being true to your personal ideals in the way in which you conduct yourself and live your life, then yes. I am.

If it requires something more, action, then I'm afraid it has been some time since I've been to the vagina monologues or marching against male oppression. But then I believe that perhaps politics and union activism (which I have been involved in) is a good place to start.

JockTamsonsBairns · 14/04/2011 21:09

Dear oh dear OP - you really should have been listening a little more intently during these Feminist Politics lectures, rather than dismissing them as "boring", shouldn't you?

Did you achieve your degree by the way?