Bf 'nazis', lies, distortions, and the disinhibiting effect of the internet

[Spudulika]

Was listening to a programme of radio 4 yesterday about how people communicated differently on internet boards - how the lack of face to face contact dis inhibits people and encourages them to say things that are harsher and more confrontational than what they'd say while face to face with someone.

Got me thinking about posts I've seen here from people telling stories of really cruel, bizarre and ignorant things that have been said to them by other women advocating breastfeeding.

Such as people being told that they 'should' breastfeed, even though they've had a double mastectomy, are on chemotherapy or other drug regimes incompatible with breastfeeding, are suffering from serious physical illnesses , have a baby with physical disabilities which make bf impossible etc etc.

Also many, many comments from people saying they've been told plainly that they 'must' exclusively breastfeed, that formula is 'poison' or that formula feeding is 'evil'.

And I started to wonder why, given that I strongly advocate breastfeeding and know many other people in r/l who feel the same, and also spend way too much a fair amount of time on mumsnet discussing the subject, I've never heard (or seen here) anyone making these sorts of stupid, intrusive and cruel comments myself.

The worst I've seen here are a few mealy-mouthed comments about women who don't bf being 'selfish' - but nothing really extreme or downright cruel.

You'd think, wouldn't you, that if people are saying these things in real life that you'd also see these opinions expressed online (given the disinhibiting effect of the internet), but you don't really do you.

And yet according to many posters on this board and elsewhere there are many women out there advocating breastfeeding who are more than just tactless or a bit strident, but are actively stupid and spiteful.

So - what's really going on?

but really, Leonie, why would you WANT to upset FFers? I don't understand

ah now, Animation , that one WAS trolling, did you see the post that was deleted?

ALpine, I did not call you a liar about your experience with LLL. I am sorry you still think I did. I did not, and on the thread you are referring to, this was accepted.

Animation, you think calling that idiot - who is a well-known and regular troll - was intimidation? :) Surely not!

Well at least the OP has had her "what's going on" question answered.

Yes, people do say things intended to offend and hurt.

I think that to bf or ff is a personal thing and while I encourage healthy debate on the issue I think that some people are a bit too forward and rude if you didn't make the same choice they did.

There are nazis on both sides and all I can hink is it's a little bit cheeky to be preaching about it because it IS a private matter and many assume that you didn't think it through if you dodn't make their choice.

I haver BF and FF and I've been criticised by randoms in the street for both. All I say to anyone with a bug to bear about it is that it's up to me and would they also like to discuss my favourite sexual positions since they thought to be so flippantly personal with me

As to what OP said about people effectovely hiding behind their computers to be meaner than they would IRL? Agreed. Totally.

I have backed up tiktok on this thread because in the thread this thread was inspired by I was reduced to tears by some comments yet not by tiktiok's.

xstitch thank you - I hope you find a way to think happier thoughts about yourself soon.

To Alpine - and apols to others who may well be finding a private spat very boring - please don't say I called you a liar.

I have read the thread where you said I called you this, and I truly did not.

I think the phrase you bristled at was my response to your post: you were saying the bf supporter you called should have said , 'sweetie you are starving your baby, use formula'.

To this, I said ' no one who was a breastfeeding supporter would talk to you in that way' - this is not to say you were lying!!

It is to say your expectations of what she could and would say could not ever be met.

I think you must have thought that when I said 'no one would say that' I was denying your account of the call, and yes, calling you a liar.

I was not - I explained it on that thread but maybe not clearly enough.

I don't honestly care whether people like or dislike me or my tone of 'voice'. That's just opinion, and I don't let it bother me.

But I do care when people come onto threads and say I accused them of lying, or I was insulting or cruel, because that's a matter of fact.

But you ignored my support of you on the other thread xstitch

tiktok you can rattle on to your hearts content about how I said "I didn't like your tone of voice"....I guess it doesn't matter that I didn't say that.

I've made up my mind about you and every time you post a comment it just reinforces it.

I'm actually not against breastfeeding...just the heartlessness of SOME pro BF posters who have ignored the real accounts of real mothers who've BF'ed and switched to FF through their own choice...or just FF all along. That in itself is cruel...
These people have their own agenda....and any said advantages of FF are going to be ridiculed.

That's it...my last word on the subject...as I'm in danger of repeating myself over and over...and that's going to be really boring!

NOt really sausages I am sorry if I have upset you when I typed that I was answering a specific point. tbh I have not read the whole of this thread.

Hi SAUSAGES - I'm a FORMULA FEEDER!!!!!!!

Sorry I told you to fuck off though, you're right that was out of order.

Well there weren't any posts on the other thread that reduced me to tears, but then for me BF and FF are a long time ago, though I suppose it shows how much it affected me at the time that it's still something I'll enter a discussion on? Lol

there were a few posts that made me go about people's attitudes to mothers who FF, but they weren't tiktok's and I'm not sure why she's getting it in the neck other than that she's pro BF. Surely that's no different than lumping everyone who FF in the same category?

LeonieDelt - I am not sure how your last post squares with your earlier ones including "i'm quite happy to upset em if i'm in the arguing mood." but the attitude in the recent post is certainly less shocking.

sausages - you said I was condescending, sounded like a schoolma'am, a prefect, and a know it all. I summed that all up in saying you did not like 'my tone'...

That's all!

I suppose I paraphrased you a bit.

I did not 'ridicule' you for saying it was an advantage to see how much formula a bottle fed baby was taking - I pointed out it was not an advantage to the baby. It's called 'engaging in debate' and 'having a conversation' and 'responding to argument'.

That's all.

I think there is something to be said for making sure the correct info is on a thread. there are lots of people lurking and reading.

Sorry but I haven't read the whole thread.

I think the internet aspect does disinhibit those who are anti-FF, people are far more evenagelical/agressive with their opinions about it in the safety of their PC

My experience is the reverse with BF, people are far FAR nastier IRL than they are online, I have been told that BF is unnatural, disgusting and asked to stop on several occasions by strangers.

I am the lone BF parent I know (family aside) and have even been told that BF my child is peverted, that my breasts should be for my husband and that he would leave as he would be disgusted by our DS "hanging off your udders".
When I mistakenly revealed that I was still BF at 16 months I virtually got accused of being a peadofile :(

I catagorically have not exagerated my experience.

I long to live somewhere where BF is the norm and socially accepted, where I can be proud that I BF for 18 months rather than keeping it a secret... But everyone's experience is different.

On the sadness front, I feel sad for any parent who has not been able to do what they wanted with their child, I am a lactavist in some respects but how YOU feed YOUR child is your business not mine.

The scientific facts are that breastmilk is best, it doesn't mean the mother is better for giving it.
And before someone starts the whole "other factors/just in the 3rd world malarky, no uk studies are UK based and adjusted for social and geographical data.

I'm sure if we could fully synathise BM, or provide it to all regardless of whether it was direct from source we could. For whatever reason some people will FF, that's their choice, formual is getting closer to BM and it would be fantastic if it was the same, but it's not. But I never feel sad for FF baby.

I feel sad that there is misinformation and a lack of support, I feel sad that (IMO) breasts are oversexuallised and people can not reconcile feeding a child with feeling attractive/sexy (FYI DH found my breasts being full of milk fine and just as if not more attractive)I feel sad that it is ok for women to flash flesh on page 3 or the cover of Zoo/Nuts/Whatever but doing the same to feed your child is seen by so many as distastefull. I feel sad that people think that when I share my enjoyement/sucess/pride in breastfeeding my child that I am judging them or theirs, or why they are giving their child something other than breastmilk

I do not feel sad for any parent or any child who is happy and full and has a happy Mummy

The world would be a much nicer place if we accepted others choices and climbed down from our high horses and accepted that babies need feeding, and that as long as the baby is fed that's all that matters

/endramble

Well I think bf should be proud but you know what. I long to live in a world where it is not acceptable to make others feel like shit just because their lives turned out different from yours. You can feel proud with out degrading others. Some people should try it some day.

Well said xstitch

Of course it's ok to choose formula from the outset. Maybe not ideal or best, but most definitely it is ok.