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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To hate the Grand National

265 replies

Lucyinthepie · 09/04/2011 19:41

Well, I do anyway. To quote a discussion on another forum, here's why:
"A total of 35 horses have died at the Grand National since 1999. That means an average of 2.5 horses per year/race. This does not compare to any other equine event held in this country."
There is no other sinlge competetive equine event in the whole of the UK where the horses entered have such a statistically high chance of meeting their death, on the same day every year.
The stats for the whole of racing are bad enough, and there are arguably some callous practises in the industry, where the animals are largely treated as disposable commodities. But, leaving that aside for now - this race - not worth it.

(Don't tell me the owners love their horses, maybe some do, but in my experience working as a groom on a racing yard for a year, the majority think they have some great investment. If the horse is lame they are more worried about when it will race again than the welfare of the horse. They'd be lucky to be able to pick their horse out if it was in a field with 10 others and not wearing their colours).

OP posts:
ManateeEquineOhara · 10/04/2011 10:04

Okay, so the horses are jumping out of pure love...does that make it okay when they break their neck? Of course not!!! I do not think they are being made to jump at all, I think these are honest horses who trust their riders and are happy to jump and happy to race...none of this makes it okay for the fences to kill them and injure many.

Jajas · 10/04/2011 10:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Animation · 10/04/2011 10:10

I think the TV coverage doesn't normally show horses on the ground covered over like that - I don't remember seeing that before. It sure gave me a jolt to reality!

Jajas · 10/04/2011 10:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

whitevanwoman · 10/04/2011 10:23

i remember someone banging on about the Grand National when i started my first job aged 18

now i am 30 years old and people are still banging on about it

anyway I only won £7 so not too chuffed this time

TurkeyBurgerThing · 10/04/2011 10:46

I am a fully qualified Equine Scientist. I have worked with and owned horses for 25 years.

I'm not a racing enthisuast but I see the breed of the horse for what it is. I can understand why people who know nothing about horses in general perhaps look on it as a "cruel" sport and many experienced horse people also think the same. However I can honestly say hand on heart if the racing industry were to stop then it would have a devestating effect on the rest of the industry from showjumping to riding school.

Can you imagine 1000s of thoroughbred horses would be sent for slaughter?

Centuries of work on the breed would end and it would eventually become a rare breed.

Joe Public would end up having no contact, interest, or exposure to equines at all as they don't geenrally seem to hold an interest in the other diciplines because it doen't generate as much hype or cash flow.( People bet on Dressage and Showjumping but the numbers are so small that it means nothing). This would also take away a huge chunk of revenue that is created an interlinked with showjumping, eventing, etc through breeding, training and veterinary science.

The horses are genetically programmed to race and run. Dairy Cows are genetetically programmed to make milk. To some people horses are pets and companions but to others they ARE a business. However they are a business that is generally respected, treated well and cared for to a higher quality than many even take care of their own children. Sure there are some very unpleasent and toxic types involved in the racing industry, and it's not for the faint hearted but the vast majority are cared for.

In many equine diciplines top class riders come from wealthy backgrounds. Racing Jockeys come from ALL kinds of backgrounds.

Horses that are fatally injured during the Grand National are destroyed within seconds, quickly and painlessly.

Science shows that adreniline blocks pain receptors in the brain. A running racehorse is pumped full and will feel very little pain in the time it is alive from the injury happening to the monent it is put down.

Some people are shocked that racehorses are sent for slaughter at the end of their careers. It's no different for cows or sheep or any other animal, only that racehorses have had a more of a "life" than general agri animals. It's quite a hard thing for people to get their heads around but it really does make sense. Otherwise there would be countless numbers of surpless equines being left out in fields doing nothing and as sad as it is it's not financially viable.

If you're not happy with what I've said feel free to ask me questions, I will answer them best I can as I could post SO much more but I think this enough for now! But quite honestly there are some comments in this thread are foolish, unproven and illformed.

Jajas · 10/04/2011 11:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

theagedparent · 10/04/2011 11:07

Yanbu, I agree with Animation, it was actually seeing those poor horses just left there on the racecourse. Disgusting race which has now been banned in this house.

TurkeyBurgerThing · 10/04/2011 11:13

Mine do piss all too, they're about as much racehorses as I am Pussycat Doll, but you have to see it for what it is. Are you really saying you'd rather TBs declined in numbers, became a rare breed and then had such a small gene pool to maintain the breed without the need for inbreeding. I can understand why people don't like it as I have already said but it has such a big part in other parts of the equine industry.

In some countries horses ARE like sheep and cows. Even here in the uk slaughter takes place where the carcuses are then shipped off to the continent for meat. 1000's are hearded each year off the Welsh hills, Exmoore, Newforest etc. To us they are pets and companions, not sunday lunch it's just the ethical difference between here and mainland Europe that means you can't buy a horse steak on your weekly Tesco shop. You shouls know yourself which box you ticked when they brought in those passports!

montysma1 · 10/04/2011 12:03

Turkey burger, if you are in fact an "equine scientist" I would wonder insitution you qualified from, as your facts are scientifically bollocks.

Horses are not genetically programmed to race and run. Horses are genetically programmed to stand about a lot, interacting with other horses and doing little else but fart and eat. Horses, "naturally" do not gallop flat out for several miles, unless they perceive themselves to be threatened. It would be a waste of energy where food is in short supply. They do not, "naturally" hurl them selves at or over obstacles unless they are threatened, to do so is dangerous and they simply wouldnt do so.

That they race is a combination of conditioning, being stuffed full of food concentrates, and shut in a stable leading up to a race. A race is nothing but a herd of horses bolting from an imagined predator, the notion that they are being chased reinforced by whipping, which in effect mimics a predator clawing at their arse. The fallers keep running, to stay with the herd as that is the safest place to be.

That the horsey set talk of horses "loving to race" is simply attributing human reasoning to horses, an accusation that infact they generally like to patronise "the ignorant public" with. Its just an attempt to justify the unjustifiable.

Horses are programmed to eat most of their waking hours, as they are herbivores. They are metabolically designed to eat large quantities of vegetation of low calorific value, and to forage and graze constantly. (unlike predators who kill and eat a lot at one time and then may not eat for many hours or days). So in fact, the feeding of racehorses and horse husbandry in general is really pretty unnatural for them and not particularly comfortable. Happy, healthy, "natural" horses, (as horsey types are alway bleating on about "nature") , are also plump, fat if they can manage it, because genetically they are programmed to build up fat stores to see them through hard winters. TBs are in fact painfully under weight.

The notion of early or late backing is in many ways a non issue. The TB is inherantly delicate and subject to all manner of illness, whether backed late or early. They are chronically inbred. It wouldnt be such a bad thing if the demise of racing brought about the end of the breed,or at least an introduction of a wider gene pool. You talk of the loss of "the work done " on the breed over centuries.

The "work done" has produced a breed which is inbred beyond belief, to produce physical traits which lend themselves to speed. Even when they dont break bones falling, they are greatly subject to spontaneous stress fractures and general lameness,because they have been bred for slim legs and small feet. Such legs and feet are inherantly unsuitable for they weight of animal they have to carry. Stocky legs and big feet do not produce a fast horse. They do not however produce a sound horse.

Many TB suffer heart attacks during or after races. Not just because of over exertion, but again because extreme in breeding has produced hearts and lungs which are relatively too large for the petite rib cage. The heart and lungs expand when the horse is flat out, with not enough room in the chest cavity, putting the cardiovascular system under extreme duress, leading to heart failure and breathing problems. This should not happen in young healthy animals, but again is blythly ingnored by the horsey world.

A huge number a foals are destroyed, because a large number of them are born with birth defects, yet again, yada yada yada,,,due to extreme in breeding. It continues, because at some point, a lucky shake of the chromosomes might procuce a champion, the other little carcasses born too ill to live, are disposable

I could go on and on about horses unfortunate enough to be thoroughbreds.

I despise so called horse lovers who justify systematic animal abuse in the name of sport, be it racing ,eventing, show jumping, dressage. Competitive sport is a wholly human construct, yet morons think they can justify it saying "horses love to compete, they love to win, they love the applause, ........" Bollocks, bollock, bollock bollocks. None of that is part of horse biology and does exist in the equine psychy, because there is no evolutionary reason for it to do so.

They do it because as herd animals, they are given to be cooperative, they do it because they have been subjected to brutal and extreme training. They do it because they dont know anything else. They do it because they have no choice.

Grotesque.

The sport of kings?

jellybeans · 10/04/2011 12:05

I think it is disgusting. It was so sad seeing those awful pics and footage of Dooney's Gate's terrible and fatal fall :( I don't agree that the argument that horses wouldn't be bred otherwise if they weren't to race. Is bullfighting OK because at least bulls existed at all before their gruesome and humiliating deaths? After all, they wouldn't be here at all otherwise would they? I don't agree that all horses love such races. Why are many whipped so much? Surely it is not acceptable these days to have races where animals regularly die painful public deaths? According to press reports, one of the fatalities in this years race was making agonising noises after his fall. Fucking terrible. The people involved should be ashamed. I am glad it was more public this year as alot of people, me included, never really realised that horse deaths are a big part of this disgraceful 'sport'.Get it banned asap!

Diege · 10/04/2011 12:29

I agree Jellybeans the pain and fear that those horses must have felt in their last few moments is heartbreaking. I see today in the news that the winning GN jockey has received a 5 day ban for excessive use of the whip in yesterday's race - not that he'll care Sad

montysma1 · 10/04/2011 12:36

You have to wonder why the whipping is needed, after all the horses just love steeplechasing. Apparently.

WinterOfOurDiscountTents · 10/04/2011 12:41

Unless you#re a vegan I don't get the outrage about a couple of dead animals. Don't you have dead animals in your fridge and freezer? On your feet and round your waist?

Seems a bit two-faced to me.

montysma1 · 10/04/2011 12:50

Missing the point somewhat?

ilovesooty · 10/04/2011 12:54

"Well clearly horses don't break their necks at Royal Ascot or in the Derby because it is flat racing but yes as I said last night, I totally agree that they are started far too young and of course it affects them physically all their lives which is awful."

Of course, removing jumps does not mean fatalities can be avoided. One example:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horatio_Nelson_%28horse%29

flyinstar · 10/04/2011 12:59

for anyone even slightly defending this awfull race,have you seen the pictures in todays papers,heartbreaking to say the least,Sad

WinterOfOurDiscountTents · 10/04/2011 13:06

I don't see why. Most animals; kill em and stick them on my plate...horses and dogs; oh the humanity, how dare anyone even think about being unkind to them.

Never understood the distinction really. Please do explain to me the point though.

flyinstar · 10/04/2011 13:06

well said montysma,i salute you!!!

montysma1 · 10/04/2011 13:08

Given your outlook on life, the point would be beyond you. So why bother.

WinterOfOurDiscountTents · 10/04/2011 13:10

I'm not sure how you know my personal outlook since I have only commented on my perceptions of others. Hmm
I'll take it that you have no explanation then, Sounds about right.

TurkeyBurgerThing · 10/04/2011 13:22

Monty, it's clear from your post you have absolutely no idea what you are speaking about. I know what I am talking about as I have worked hard in the industry my entire life. It's what I do! Believe of my post what you like. It's clear you aren't experienced in this area, and have only picked up on incorrect information.

montysma1 · 10/04/2011 13:25

Your outlook being, that animals are not sentient creatures, inherantly disposable. You did make that perfectly clear.After all we humans are the master race.

The inquities of the meat producing industry are quite separate from any argument regarding animal welfare issues involved in horse racing. Introducing it here simply muddies the debate.

Both are utterly unjustifiable, but one is touted as a glorious piece of family entertainment, fun for all involved. And that is what is being debated here.

However, you are quite clear, that kill it, eat it , abuse it, is perfectly fine..... afterall they are just animals...............Thats all I need to know about your outlook, and given that outlook, then yes, the point is beyond you.

WinterOfOurDiscountTents · 10/04/2011 13:30

Actually I did not, I was quite obviously asking about other peoples ideas as they seem to conflict. I didn't mention mine.

Do try again. And the issues are not entirely different at all, the hypocrisy of bleating about 2 animals dying if you care little about millions dying on the same day seems to be essential to any argument.

You might want to work a little on your own sentience and read posts thoroughly before commenting on them. You still have no inkling on my thoughts as I haven't provided them for you. I could be an animals rights campaigning vegan commenting on your hypocrisy, or I could be a carnivorous horse-racing fanatic. Or half and half. Or neither. You don't know which.

AlpinePony · 10/04/2011 13:33

I put the blame firmly at the owner's feet.

They want the prestige of having a horse run in the race whether it is race-fit and/or capable or not.