To hate the Grand National

[Lucyinthepie]

Well, I do anyway. To quote a discussion on another forum, here's why:
"A total of 35 horses have died at the Grand National since 1999. That means an average of 2.5 horses per year/race. This does not compare to any other equine event held in this country."
There is no other sinlge competetive equine event in the whole of the UK where the horses entered have such a statistically high chance of meeting their death, on the same day every year.
The stats for the whole of racing are bad enough, and there are arguably some callous practises in the industry, where the animals are largely treated as disposable commodities. But, leaving that aside for now - this race - not worth it.

(Don't tell me the owners love their horses, maybe some do, but in my experience working as a groom on a racing yard for a year, the majority think they have some great investment. If the horse is lame they are more worried about when it will race again than the welfare of the horse. They'd be lucky to be able to pick their horse out if it was in a field with 10 others and not wearing their colours).

oh ffs YABU get over it

YANBU. I am no animal rights activist, and I am bored senseless by horse racing, but this is rotten. The GN ranks in the same category as bear baiting.

Nope B4Beatrice just like arguing and have had a few glasses of vino

Genuinely think the GN is disgusting and the treatment of TB racehorses is barbaric (see my earlier posts regarding my horses) so I'll argue blind with anyone who tries to defend racing.

Fair enough! I have also been at the vino!

Although please just listen for one second!

I have never "defended" racing in this thread! You have got the wrong person!

I have never outed myself as to what my PERSONAL veiws are!

I don't like that argument. Why be deliberately cagey? Why not just come out for one side or the other then and be done with it? If you're trying to say you're actually anti-racing, then just bloody say it and SAY that you don't agree with the GB and/or any other race? Why try to argue (rightly or wrongly) that there may be other areas of equestrian sports that are just as cruel? That might be true, but if your views are that horseracing/the GN are wrong - why not just say that?

Bollocks, vino starting to take effect GB was obviously supposed to be GN

whoops

OP YANBU. I have hated it ever since Dark Ivy died and wasn't that keen on it prior to Dark Ivy going down. Godawful stupid dangerous race, worse than any other; racehorse owners putting in younger and less-tried horses now that they've modified Becher's Brook, resulting in more danger for all concerned.

All steeplechases involve a measure of risk but it's well known that the Grand National is the most dangerous of them - it's some kind of macho bravado thing to put your horse into it - survival of the fittest and all that bollocks, when in fact it could be just an ill-timed landing or another horse crashing into yours that brings it down and causes its death.

Horses like running, no doubt. Some horses even love jumping. But that race is ridiculous.

It would appear from the photo that Dooney's Gate suffered a similar fate to Dark Ivy, thumb .

Ah feck, I still haven't got over seeing that the first time around - so glad I don't watch it any more. :( Poor bloody horses...

HaHa. Funnily enough I didnt want to be drawn into a big long debate where no-body would listen to me anyway. But here we are anyway.

I dont know if I am pro especially. My whole family is involved with horses. I have showjumped for GB on ponies and as young rider.

I love horse racing, but maybe in this day and age the GN is not as humane as it could be.

All I know is I have been brought up with the GN always being "there". However we should definatly strive to improve the humanity of all animal sports and lives and well being of all commercial horses. Maybe the GN does not fit in this.

Worse animal abuse than the GN happens every day. But I guess that doesnt make it right. However, I like many other people, love the thrill of the GN and would miss it if it stopped.

I dont think it ever will stop though........

So, basically aia dont know what I think, which was why I was trying to stay impartial.....

Anyway, have you ever seen . Freaking awesome horse, isnt he?

Unfortunately I don't think it'll ever stop either.

He is an amazing horse! I want him. I absolutely adore TBs. Particularly ex-racehorses. Because they aren't raised in 'normal' herds they're much more like Arabs and love being around people. They're bombproof. That is one of the upsides of getting an ex-racehorse.

I'm a smoker. One day, on the yard, I dropped my lighter and one of my horses stood on it. It exploded, and I mean exploded - HUGE bang and plastic everywhere. Everyone on the yard froze, expecting my mad horses to bolt everywhere. They didn't even bat an eyelid. Didn't even look round from their feeds!

I'm so sad, I'm sitting here crying in the middle of the night about this, saw the horrific pics of horses falling onto their necks in the dm. Used to enjoy racing and rode in my youth but can't watch anymore as I'm really just checking to see if they all make it. Wish I hadn't looked. Not a mail reader but go there for an insomniac fix of dross btw.

I don't think we'll stop racing. I wonder if the Grand National might sometime in the next few years get stopped? Every year the public becomes more and more aware of the barbaric nature of this particular race, and the horrific way that the horses die.

To be fair, I must correct my original post, the stats are for the Aintree meetin, which takes place over 3 days, and not just the Grand National. Bad enough for me and the risk in taking part in the Grand National is still significantly higher than in taking part in other races.
In the press I see some focus now on how the dead horses were referred to as "obstacles", the lack of respect and the fact that they could be seen, covered and screened, on the telly. Maybe that's relevant but it's about words, I'm more concerned about the actual deaths of the animals than the name of public enjoyment. I'm still shocked at the huge percentage of loving horse owners who defend the race, and can't help but wonder if they would enter their own beloved animal into an event with the same risk. (Some do similar, when they take part in eventing, which has a significant number of serious injuries and deaths, but the risk isn't as high as in racing).
Re the useless nature or otherwise of thoroughbred horses should racing no longer exist somehow. I tend not to measure how useful a horse is by whether or not it can get to the top level in competition. TB's make good riding horses and can turn their hoof to a variety of the disciplines that the majority of riders in the UK enjoy. They can do distance riding, jump, hack, dressage, western... so I think they'd survive.

"in the name of public enjoyment"

oh no

I cant watch it, DP told me none of them had died (to stop me getting upset I imagine)

I think its digusting and should be banned along with dog racing

I watched the race, and I must admit when I saw the horses running around those jumps where dead horses were covered over - I wondered why do I still put a bet on this race every year.

It probably should be banned.

And they reckon the Brits are a nation of animal lovers......

I have a horse and have previously worked with horses and while I don't have an issue with racing, the GN is different. It makes me quite sick to hear about horses dying every year, it is pretty much a given that there will be deaths, quite unlike any other races or other horsey sports including eventing which can be rather extreme. It is just about profit, and while other equestrian events are also, the horse's welfare is not just ignored like it is with the GN.

I remember when HOYS one year had a kind of indoor Hickstead bank and a horse died, it was a huge issue and the bank was immediately removed, a different equestrian sport - a totally different value to the life and welfare of the animal.

I'm not going to try and persuade anyone that the National shouldn't be banned, but all of those of you who do think that, do you also think the Derby should be banned, or Royal Ascot?

Probably not. The GN has incredibly visible fatalities, on tv, high-profile horses and owners, huge audience, massive fences and dramatic falls and so obviously it's very easy to point to it and say it's cruel and barbaric. To me a steeple chaser throwing himself over a massive fence, riderless, as several were yesterday shows that horses too will jump for the sheer love of it regardless of danger.

To me what is barbaric is the factory output of youngsters in flat racing, who are often worked too hard too young, and broken down before they're even matured. I think racing has plenty of areas where it needs to put its house in order, but the National isn't one of them. I bet the Daily Mail won't run a peice on the cruelty of flat racing come Royal Ascot, just another photo montage on celebrity outfits.

So I guess my point is, look a bit further than the Daily Mail headlines. It's an easy point to make, but it's not necessarily the best one.

ATYD - the horses continue to jump because they are part of a herd. The average horse/pony would do exactly the same because it just is not in a horse's mentality to break from the herd. However I agree many horses do enjoy jumping and racing, but that does not make it okay when they die!

You are quite right about the way young horses are treated in racing though, non of it is ideal, however many will go on after racing to live with a single owner as a riding horse (allbeit one that will most likely have early onset arthritis, issues with bending etc). That is just not on the same scale as 2 horses breaking there necks/backs on one course.

Have to say I am not fussed by the grand national at all. However, the fact that 2 horses were killed yesterday means surely something must be done, especially as this figure is slightly below the average number of deaths per race since 1999 according to a PP. It needs to be more humane and perhaps fewer horses to make it safer. Imagine the outrage if a rider had his neck or back broken.

Manatee, I do know that about the herd. The point is there are ample run-outs around the Aintree course where the horses can run alongside the pack without going over the fences, yet still they jump. Many of the riderless horses at the back were some distance away from the pack, yet still they jumped. It's in their blood, the love it, and whether the course needs modifying or not, these horses are not being forced - certainly not by 8-9 stone men and women - to participate.

DH said yesterday he wished Ballabriggs had a heart attack and died immediately after.

Just like the Ulster Grand National winner last year - died seconds after winning.

Maybe it would take something like that to happen for more people not to bet on it.

Horrible, cruel race. Make the fences lower, make the race shorter. Stop allowing people to enter unskilled, too young horses.

Cook actually a young rider is in a critical condition after a fall at Aintree, but because it wasn't over the National fences (but the normal steeplechase course) it hasn't made the headlines, or any outrage at all. See what I mean about the papers making an easy point?