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AIBU?

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Original poster

To hate the Grand National

265 replies

Lucyinthepie · 09/04/2011 19:41

Well, I do anyway. To quote a discussion on another forum, here's why:
"A total of 35 horses have died at the Grand National since 1999. That means an average of 2.5 horses per year/race. This does not compare to any other equine event held in this country."
There is no other sinlge competetive equine event in the whole of the UK where the horses entered have such a statistically high chance of meeting their death, on the same day every year.
The stats for the whole of racing are bad enough, and there are arguably some callous practises in the industry, where the animals are largely treated as disposable commodities. But, leaving that aside for now - this race - not worth it.

(Don't tell me the owners love their horses, maybe some do, but in my experience working as a groom on a racing yard for a year, the majority think they have some great investment. If the horse is lame they are more worried about when it will race again than the welfare of the horse. They'd be lucky to be able to pick their horse out if it was in a field with 10 others and not wearing their colours).

OP posts:
Jajas · 09/04/2011 22:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

charleneanne · 09/04/2011 22:51

how did you guess jajas

B4Beatrice · 09/04/2011 22:54

Erm, Browncoats, TBs are useless showjumpers. Maybe 30 years ago when poles where heavy, cups were deep and being careful wasnt the top priority.

But now days, regarding showjumping, TBs cant jump out of their own way........

Jajas · 09/04/2011 22:54

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Lucyinthepie · 09/04/2011 22:56

Jajas, there would be less TB's, but there should be less equines in the UK anyway. So much neglect, too many horses being bred, plus indescriminate breeding. Numbers need to reduce anyway. I'm sure that enough people love them for the versatile animals that they are so that they wouldn't vanish though. I'm sure most horsey people would agree that TB's can do a lot more than race.
B4Beatrice, those are the sums that had been done, but I can't find it. I think I started out in Wiki, Grand National, and it came eventually from there. It was quite interesting. Compared the stats on racehore fatalities with human car accidents as well. Which was quite off the wall, but interesting.
Oh heck, I must not come creeping back to the screen when I have other things to do. Darn you MN!

OP posts:
Jajas · 09/04/2011 22:57

This reply has been deleted

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B4Beatrice · 09/04/2011 23:00

Sorry Jajas.

Yes you do hear about them, especially at major competions.
But because it is a lower profile sport, and you dont have to notify anyone that you have had a horse put down after injury, and because so many novice evets happen every weekend which are not televised or even reported on by equestrian media, there is a much much greater number of deaths (either instant or because of catastrophic injury) than what people believe there to be.

Browncoats · 09/04/2011 23:02

"Erm, Browncoats, TBs are useless showjumpers. Maybe 30 years ago when poles where heavy, cups were deep and being careful wasnt the top priority.

But now days, regarding showjumping, TBs cant jump out of their own way........"

Um, no. I was watching Hickstead (I think) last year and I can remember at least 2 TBs. Why would they be competing if they "couldn't jump out of their own way"

Jajas · 09/04/2011 23:02

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Jajas · 09/04/2011 23:03

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B4Beatrice · 09/04/2011 23:06

Maybe you was watching the Eventers Grand Prix at Hickstead? Would be TBs in that.

Also although I doubt it, there is a slim slim chance you may get a TB in the Speed Derby or the Derby because the course has not been changed for decades. You may need boldness over carefulness in them two classes. Its like jumping 30 years ago. Ditches, hedges, water etc.

Although I very much doubt it to be honest.

Real current showjumping would be out of reach for a TB.

B4Beatrice · 09/04/2011 23:08

You are right Jajas. Eventing is tragic at the moment. I dont really have any answer to that question. Maybe it should be mandatory that eventers have training in falling? Like jockeys?

Browncoats · 09/04/2011 23:17

From Wiki

"In the lower levels, it is possible for any breed of horse, if it has the talent for it, to do well in eventing. Thoroughbreds and part-thoroughbreds currently dominate the sport at the top levels because of their stamina and athletic ability, although many warmbloods and warmblood-thoroughbred crosses also do well. In the UK, Irish sport horses have been popular for many years"

B4Beatrice · 09/04/2011 23:22

Im very sorry Browncoats I thought we was talking about showjumpers??
I never said TBs dont event. They are a desirable eventer.
Why have you copied and pasted from Wiki about using TBs for eventing? I only said they cant showjump.

Browncoats · 09/04/2011 23:27

Sorry, is there no showjumping in eventing now? Or is that not 'real' showjumping?

"Maybe you was watching the Eventers Grand Prix at Hickstead? Would be TBs in that.

Also although I doubt it, there is a slim slim chance you may get a TB in the Speed Derby or the Derby because the course has not been changed for decades. You may need boldness over carefulness in them two classes. Its like jumping 30 years ago. Ditches, hedges, water etc."

Ah, because the Speed Derby course hasn't been changed in decades,that's not 'real' either? Oh sorry, you meant the 'pure' showjumpers. Woo woo. Big deal. Sorry, should I have said 'top competition horses' then?

Browncoats · 09/04/2011 23:34

And anyway, wasn't Nijinski trying to say that if it weren't for racing TBs would become endangered or extinct? Obviously for their bloodlines and strong genetics they are still highly prized animals for breeding and as we've just all been arguing about how good they are at showjumping eventing, they're unlikely to die out if they ever do decide to ban racing Hmm

B4Beatrice · 09/04/2011 23:36

Yeah there is SJ in eventing. Its only about 1.30m and there are very limited horses that jump a clear round. It is hard for a TB to jump a clear SJ. Im not knocking them. Its just not their thing.

The Speed Derby and the Hickstead Derby are specialist classes because they are so rare. You need a Derby horse to jump one, they are not a representation of todays SJ classes. However I do love the Derby.

Please dont stress at me. Im just saying you were not accurate when you said TBs make good showjumpers.

But, this is pathetic, I dont even care. You want to showjump a TB go and have a great time.

dolldaggabuzzbuzz · 09/04/2011 23:37

YANBU. Gambling is a mug's game.

Browncoats · 09/04/2011 23:40

"But, this is pathetic, I dont even care. You want to showjump a TB go and have a great time."

You see, that's my point - you don't care. And I DO showjump my ex-racehorses-who-were-severely-misstreated-by-the-fucking-racing-industry TBs and you're right - I do have a great time.

B4Beatrice · 09/04/2011 23:41

It is possible if we ban racing hundreds and hundreds of years down the line TBs will look very different.

They will be bred to have more substance, be better at dressage and probably will be encouraged to have more a conscience SJ.

They will not be "highly prized animals" in their current form. Currently they are designed to race and schooled to event. If there was no racing they would be designed to event.

Anyway, racing will not be banned so this is a pointless subject. TBs will remain looking like racehorses, and some will go eventing.

B4Beatrice · 09/04/2011 23:43

x posted.

Thats great for you? I hope you continue having fun.

However you seem to be talking to me like I am defending racing. Im pretty sure I have not voiced my personal opinions on racing once on this thread.

Browncoats · 09/04/2011 23:45

Hundreds of years down the line - most horses change their characteristics and appearances and uses.

Browncoats · 09/04/2011 23:45

Sorry, should have said "most horse breeds"

kazmus · 09/04/2011 23:45

RIP Dooneys Gate and Ornais so sad to see your poor bodies still on the course as the race continued on the second circuit.

B4Beatrice · 09/04/2011 23:49

Yeah, probably Browncoats.

I didnt say that was good or bad, I just was stating what would happen.

You seem very argumentative with me?

Bad day?