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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

children can make their own mind up about religion when they grow up...

814 replies

AliGrylls · 07/04/2011 12:05

Okay I have just read this on another thread but this is a statement I hear quite a lot and want to ask the question.

If all you teach your child is atheism how will they make their mind up about religion when they grow up because they have no religion other than atheism?

They will know nothing other than what you have taught them so they have nothing to make their mind up about - they will be atheist, by default. If people genuinely want their children to make their own mind up they have to provide them with a reasonable alternative (ie, Judaism / Christianity / Islam).

I don't actually know any adults who have been brought up atheist who have thought all of a sudden "I believe in God, I am going to go to Church".

OP posts:
MillyR · 07/04/2011 12:24

I am confused by what your question is. You seem to be talking about religion and finding God as one and the same thing. Religion is a set of cultural rules and traditions about human interaction with the supernatural. Finding God is someone's own interaction with the supernatural.

I am an atheist. One of my children is an atheist and the other has supernatural interactions. I do not think her supernatural interactions are any less meaningful because she experiences them within a religious tradition.

So I think you have to clarify what it is that you think children should learn.

MillyR · 07/04/2011 12:25

Sorry, should have written 'experiences them without a religious tradition'

Rhian82 · 07/04/2011 12:26

Plenty of people convert from atheism to different religions.

MIFLAW · 07/04/2011 12:26

Also, am I wrong in thinking that the majority of the people in the New Testament, including all the disciples, came to Christianity as adults ...

stealthcat · 07/04/2011 12:26

What was the Dawkins book?

stubbornhubby · 07/04/2011 12:29

about 98% of people who are religious have find that the one true religion is ... the one their parents' have

Prunnhilda · 07/04/2011 12:29

Rhian82, you can't technically convert from atheism, just from one religion to another.
Anyway, what are the figures for that? Some follow a religion as adults despite there having been none at home, but 'plenty'?

GeekCool · 07/04/2011 12:31

There is a middle ground though surely? I will teach my child about all religions, if he shows an interest in theology. I'll be unbiased where possible but I certainly won't bring him up to follow a belief system/religion that I find flawed.

Rosieeo · 07/04/2011 12:32

As many other posters have said, atheism isn't a religion.

We talk to DC about religion whenever it comes up and that's fine. DD tells me she doesn't believe in any gods but she does believe in fairies. Which is fair enough.

msbuggywinkle · 07/04/2011 12:32

I'm unitarian, don't believe in a 'personal God'. I attend services, but the DDs are free to decide whether they do or not. DD2 usually does because she likes the time on her own with me, DD1 prefers to lounge around the living room with DP.

I see no reason why religious parents can't simply continue to practice, but give their children a real choice. If both parents wanted to attend services but one of their DC didn't surely they could just take turns in going with any DC who were interested?

If parents actively want their children to follow their religion, I am of the opinion that they should simply model their way of doing things. Making a free choice to join a religion will surely be more meaningful for all involved than children just doing as they're told?

grovel · 07/04/2011 12:32

My DS (20) is an atheist who went to a fairly "churchy" boarding school. He's still delighted that understands the stories behind (and the motivation for) The Messiah, the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, Michelangelo's David etc.

mizu · 07/04/2011 12:34

This is of relevance to me at the moment. I am Christian - although not practising - and my DH is Muslim. Our dds are still fairly young and I agreed before we got married that yes they would be Muslim.

DH is not particularly strict with regards to his religion. He says he wants them to be taught the Qu'ran etc etc but to my mind it is not really our place to be teaching children that this or that is right or wrong. They have just started Arabic school on a Saturday which i was all for as having another language is great but they do a bit of God stuff too and I am starting to feel uncomfortable with the idea of teaching the girls things that I don't think are true.

Slightly off thread, sorry but it has certainly got me thinking. We celebrate Christmas and Easter and the girls go to a C of E school in an affluent area. I think they should be taught about all religions not indoctrinated.

Prunnhilda · 07/04/2011 12:35

Yes there is a real value in the language of the bible and knowing how it is used in art/history/literature. I've never ever met an atheist who didn't see it as culturally significant.

seeker · 07/04/2011 12:35

Atheism is not a belief ior a religion. I don't "bring my children up as atheists" I just bring them up. If they ask about God, I tell them what I think, and what other people believe. At school they are taught about Christianity and all other faits as well. If they want to join one of them, then that's fine.

Your op seems to be saying that you need to bring children up as Christians so that they can choose to be Christians when they grow up. I don;t understand that-sorry.

Lots of people briught up as Christians end up atheists - I'm sure it can work the other way round.

Original poster
AliGrylls · 07/04/2011 12:38

I don't know I never read it. A couple of friends told me about it. Anyway, the Dawkins book is irrelevant to the discussion in general. I do feel some atheists are as fervent in their beliefs as the most annoying Christian.

I don't think children should be brought up being taught about every single religion in the world as it could go on forever, they should just be taught an alternative to atheism. For my children it is Christianity (they would have also had the option of Judaism because DH is Jewish by birth but he really doesn't care for religion).

Milly, have I actually said "finding God" in my posts. I don't think I have. Anyway, I hate that expression.

OP posts:
helendigestives · 07/04/2011 12:41

I know quite a few people brought up atheists who are now religious, myself included. Conversely, I know many people who were brought up as Christians and are now atheists, including my parents.

With myself as religious (though not affiliated to a religion) and my partner as an atheist, I think our child's upbringing will be similar to our own - to tell them that 'some people believe that...[insert religious belief here]' and teach them about various cultural celebrations and beliefs and let them make up their own mind.

StrawberriesAndScream · 07/04/2011 12:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Rosieeo · 07/04/2011 12:43

The entire point of atheism is that you don't believe, not that you provide a specific alternative!

Crawling · 07/04/2011 12:43

I am Catholic DP is atheist, DS knows what we both believe and attends church but is given a choice everytime to stay with dad. He is 5 and ATM he believes but I dont think he will when older which is fine. When he is a bit older I intend to tell him about other religions in depth (he allready knows a bit). The wars caused by lack of respect for others beliefs E.T.C. I believe religion is a important part of our history and culture whether you believe or not.

Spero · 07/04/2011 12:43

I think you are confusing 'bringing children up' with 'indoctrination'.

I have never had any truck with organised religion for as long as I can remember. If there is a God he has made a pretty poor show of it thus far and his believers are generally not the kind of people I want in my life.

My daughter is curious about lots of things, as I would hope and expect from any young child. We have discussed the fact that different people believe in different things. I have said I do not have a 'faith' but that people who do find it very comforting and it makes them happy. I would not be 'upset' if she finds she has a faith - as long as she doesn't start going around telling people what to do or that this 'faith' makes her superior to those without it.

I just dont understand the problem. She had a humanist naming ceremony and I was accused of not giving her the 'choice' to believe in God. I didn't understand that objection then and I don't know and I suspect this op comes from the same place.

'Faith' as I understand it, does not seem to be a choice. You have it or you don't.

LadyWord · 07/04/2011 12:44

I too am an atheist who would like my children to learn about religions and what people believe, without being taught one religion as if it were true. Only then can they really make up their mind properly because they'll have a choice of all religions. As no religion particularly makes any more sense than any other, why on earth choose one?

The trouble with your OP is that you say they should have "a reasonable alternative" to atheism. But religions aren't do do with reason. they don't make sense. That is what I really object to about religious dogma (as opposed to teaching about religions) in school. They are trying to get kids to understand things like maths and science and facts about the world that are based in reality and make sense. Then they tell them "Jesus died for our sins" etc as if that's the same type of information. It isn't - it has no demonstrable basis in fact.

AliSheedy · 07/04/2011 12:47

I wouldn't indoctrinate my child in that way. I am sorry if that offends people, but that is my view.

I am an atheist, but am not raising my children as atheists.

I don't say 'God doesn't exist'. I say 'I don't personally believe God exists, but lots of people do' and we discuss what they learn in RE lessons (at non-denom school) and talk about the fact that their grandparents are RC and what they believe (they go to church with them occasionally).

My primary school age DS says he does believe in God, because it makes 'perfect sense' (he can't explain beyond that, but he is very sure of himself and I am fascinated by this).

I like to think I am keeping it open.

Original poster
AliGrylls · 07/04/2011 12:48

I don't think you need to be brought up as Christian - I believe that if you don't get an introduction to faith at home a child will be unlikely to grow up and think that it is something they will want to participate in and they won't necessarily enjoy the benefits of organised religion (yes there are some).

Mizu - you are in a sort of similar situation to me. DH is Jewish (although very lapsed) and I question my judgement sometimes about whether I should introduce this to them too - it might just be too much and confuse them.

OP posts:
Original poster
AliGrylls · 07/04/2011 12:48

Off to lunch.

OP posts:
WinterOfOurDiscountTents · 07/04/2011 12:50

Atheists don't have beliefs to be fervent about. You seem to be very confused as to what the word means.

And why should they be taught one religion as opposed to none? Not very broad minded of you at all, despite all your posturing you seem to be going for the pick a god, any god, as long as you have one, approach.