to think that not everything has to be caused by a "Disorder"

[Bogeyface]

About all the posts on here with people saying "perhaps s/he has XX personality disorder"

Why can some people just be a fucking nightmare because....they are? Its really annoying that on most threads about an annoying, needy, selfish etc person, the OP is told that the person might have some form of personality disorder when most of the time they wont have!

If it must be done can some psychologist please discover the following

Demanding Bitch Disorder
PITA Disorder
Useless Wanker Disorder
Lazy Bastard Disorder
Selfish Arsehole Disorder
Simply Not A Nice Person Disorder
I Like To Label People With A Disorder Disorder

well...............I wonder how many people who now have proper diagnosis for their DC/DH/DP were prompted to have them assessed by a professional by reading a thread on MN, or elsewhere??

What of those who don't "grow out of it" or for those who are diagnosed AS ADULTS. (yes it does happen), and realise that all the issues from years gone by were nothing to do with their strict, or lax up bringing, but because their brain is wired differently.

and of course many of them have only got "names" reently

That's because not THAT many years ago

Anyone with a disability, mental health issues, special educatin need etc came somewhere under the labels of

Stupid, delinquent, lunatics, mad etc. and other terms which I shan't actually write down as they're so offensive now.

Thankfully science has moved on and we now have proper "labels" for various MH issues, and SEN, and SN, and behavioural issues.

and just to go back to a point in the second post

"when quite clearly like you said it its just down to who they are,"

So..........children (and adults) with ASD, or mental health issues, any of the other (apparently) "accepted" disorders and health problems........surely by that reasoning - "it's just who they are" isn't it?

YABU OP

Why?

Well firstly ebcuase people posting could it be X Y or Z on ehre led me to get my autistic son checked and create an environment where he is starting to catch up;; advising for a check is not the same as saying it IS the disorder

Secondly as someone studying an MA in Autism, ODD is generally ATM considered likely to be an extension of the spectrum, something sually genetic.

Thirdly disorders don't excuse, but they help us find the tools to deal with.

oh - has it moved on, I read the OP and first 50 posts or so, and then the last few posts..............

ahh well, I'm outta here then, got DS1's Easter service this afternoon then want to have a word with his teacher because horror, I'm going to ask for him to be assessed..............following on from recommendations from people on here, he may we be "who is is" but I think his brain may well be wired differently as she as hell doesn't respond to my (sometimes too strict ) parenting in the same way his brothers do.

The OP's point was that not every mean-minded, controlling MIL has NPD - sometimes they're just nasty old bags.

There was a study done by the NAS recently where they went back through records and looked for ASD rates using current diagnostic labels on people with labels such as 'retarded', 'mentally deficient'

Guess what? rates were pretty much same then as now, now we just ahve names and techniques to help.

it's not possible to just deal with for many; specialist help saves life chances and enables taxes to be paid, goal of all capitalist economies.

stropperella - that can be turned round though, not every man who attempts to kill (for example) his wife is an evil bastard, sometimes, like in my own personal experience, they're actually ill.

That's strange, I didn't realise that Autism had only recently been invented

And yes I WILL resort to insults for idiots like you because you are a fuckwit. Ooops I said it again.

Most parents I know personally that have children with SNs (including us) do NOT say "oh it's not their fault" and let them behave badly. They go through the assessment and diagnosis in order to find out what is causing the problems, find out how best to approach it, in order to parent more effectively. Having a DS with SNs does not mean that we don't discipline him, it means that we discipline him differently - according to what works best for his particular difficulties.

I think "tagged for life" is a rather harsh way of putting it. And please keep in mind that as children get older, they are taught ways to cope with their difficulties and are often better able to understand their limitations, which also results in improved behaviour. As young children, it is often impossible to reason with them and they simply cannot always sit quietly or fit into the "seen and not heard" mould.

Definition

Oppositional defiant disorder (ODD) is a childhood mental disorder characterized by a pattern of angry, antagonistic, hostile, negative, irritable, and/or vindictive behavior lasting at least six months and occurring more frequently than is typically observed for the child's age and developmental stage. Children diagnosed with ODD do not meet the clinical diagnostic criteria for conduct disorder.

Description

Oppositional defiant disorder (ODD), a relatively new clinical classification, involves an ongoing pattern of antagonistic, defiant, and hostile behavior toward parents and other authority figures. Children and adolescents with ODD often have frequent temper tantrums, blame others for their misbehavior, argue excessively with adults, actively refuse to comply with adult rules and requests, deliberately defy adults and attempt to annoy or upset them, and are easily annoyed by others.

I dont believe I mentioned Autism at all.

Squeaky - I wish my DD would grow out of her severe autism and own a company etc but frankly I will be happy if she has basic speech and can dress herself. How smug are you

That would be all those kids on Jamie's Dream School, then.

Well, squeaky, you addressed me, and my child has autism, not ODD. She probably has ADHD though so you can putthat down to my bad parenting if you like. And stop posting that list which sounds general but really is much more serious in diagnosed ODD sufferers.

Thanks for the refreshments, Baroque :) Ah well, the trouble is: no two situations are ever exactly the same. Which is why generalisations are inherently dodgy. My ex-MIL genuinely does have NPD....

Squeaky's and Louloudia's comments, I found pretty hard to 'swallow'.
I think Squeaky would be a good person to take my ds1(7) off my hands. Becasue I find him hard to cope with. They thought it might be ODD, then suggested AS, now suggesting ASD. And they keep telling me that my parenting is exemplary.
But it doesn't feel that way.
Do you have a weekly or monthly rate Squeaky, for care of ds1?
Or do you want to train me ?
which is easier do you think ?

So fine, for those of you who want to allow your child to be tagged for life with a disorder that has only recently been created, go ahead

Harsh Squeaky. I was diagnosed with dyspraxia as an adult. My father's friend was diagnosed with it about 60 years ago, it was called Clumsy Child Syndrome back then. How is that a 'recently created' disorder? How were my parents 'tagging me for life' - they didn't even want me to go to be assessed for it, but at 21 I knew I'd found the answer to my life long co-ordination problems and learning difficulties.

IM a mum of DS who has Dyspraxia, and ADHD-PI/ADD
My DS is not naughty, wild, out of control, and is certainly disciplined with his occasional bad behaviour

ADHD , my DS has is not wild/fiery, angry, or hyperactive, in fact he is almost the opposite, day dreamer/poor organisational skills.

I can assure you ADHD-PI and Dyspraxia are very much real conditions, just because they were not heard of years ago? smoking around babies was the in thing years ago,we have evidently learnt that smoking around
babies is dangerous, and put your baby higher risk group in cot death.

I think its a disgrace to assume everytime my DS falls over, or pisses all up the wall, cant do his laces up and more,is not because of his poor balance and fine loco skills but is just poor parenting
And just to add, I have a 12yo DD who is doing fantastically well in school, grades are fab, and again no behaviour problems, due to poor parenting

Though, im not sure I can say that about the 22mo sat in the house here

Also, as DS has only recently been diagnosed with ADHD-PI/ADD, I have very little knowledge about it, obvs I have read/researched etc. But do not really know anyone who has had life skills with dealing with this disorder

If anyone has a experience , Id really appreciate some helpful advice/skills that other mums/dads etc have discovered over time

My friend's DD was diagnosed with ODD twenty years ago so hardly new then is it?

As an adult she still experiences problems which are controlled by Concerta (Ritalin to you). Born with it, lives with it, will grow old with it. Initial disagnosis was ADHD - oh and her brother is totally different so it's hardly crap parenting. You need to do some reading to educate yourself before posting such stupid comments.

Well done squeaky for finding the DSM IV operational criteria for diagnosing ODD.

You will note that the Diagnostic & Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association was intended for use in research [and funding in the USA] where it is essential that all the children in the cohort are having the same difficulties.

ODD can be mild, moderate or severe and anything in between - at the mild end are the 'awkward squad' and at the severe end are children so rigid and implacable that they cause enormous distress to themselves and their families - and can be virtually uneducatable. As Sanctimoaniearse has said already, the severely affected children have much in common with some autistic children.