They're coming into our country and they don't even have to register to claim benefits now

[bupcakesandcunting]

Not the words of me but of Alf Garnett my mother.

I feel that she has reached the pinnacle of twattery. AIBU to tell her to shut the fuck up with this? Honestly, it makes me so fucking angry, especially when it is punctuated with "I read it in the newspaper", like that makes it definitely true.

that's the point wonkey it's NOT handed out for free to all and sundry

They say that like British-born people don't also take full advantage (and obviously the group that take advantage of benefits the most would be British simple numbers) of the system without contributing as well. Just your standard ignorance and selective blindness when 'their own' do it but come down like a hammer when someone 'different' benefits.

NHS is there to save and better lives not to provide services only to people who pay, unless you would like to try the American health system I am pretty sure most people would not like that.

wonkey - so who are these 'all and sundry' people who are given benefits? That sounds a bit DM to be honest. Did you read what Baroque wrote?

Show her

Um, unless you are an asylum seeker or have an EU passport you DO need to prove you can support yourself. The number of hoops you need to jump through to become resident in the uk, and the amount if money you have to pay (eg. Spouse visa is £700, only lasts two years and you cannot receive benefits while in this visa. After that a settlement visa is £900. then another £750 a year later if you want citizenship). You must provide bank statements, pay slips and evidence of payment of taxes if you are in employment. You are subjected to a criminal background check and have to be issued and ID card (the ones that regular uk residents said no way to), so your photo and fingerprints are on file.

Winds me up when people go on about "they come over here..." When I mention the process i had to go through, I've had people people (ahem, yes you FIL) say"oh, but it shouldn't apply to YOU!"
You see, I'm a from one of the commonwealth countries, speak English as my first language etc. So I must be acceptable.

I agree no one should be able to show up and immediately get benefits etc (asylum seekers aside). But this doesn't happen! I think for a lot of people it's thinly veiled racism.

Given that benefits are much more generous in some other EU countries why are all the 'freeloaders' coming here then?

Fabby - I'm very interested in your point could you please link to some evidence/protocols (not the DM) of how to claim copious benefits in this country when you're not a UK national? Failing that some verified figures of how much per year is spent by the NHS treating foreign nationals after the cost of recharge to their country of origin has been taken in to account. Genuine question. Suspect I won't get an answer.

Bupcakes - are you my sister? My mum Alf Garnett insists they get grants to buy themselves cars along with all the free cash too, oh how I laugh

Oh I forgot... YANBU!
wish I had the guts to say the same ;-)

runwithscissors EXACTLY! That is the situation my friend is in!

"wind your neck in OP, not everyone wants everything handed out for free to all and sundry"

Shut. Up.

Read a bit. And I don't mean the Daily Mail. HTH. :)

MsFaithless our mothers must be one and the same! She said last week she saw some "illegal asylum seekers" (she hasn't grasped the difference between asylum seekers/illegal immigrants/EU Nationals who are entitled to be here) in B&Q, paying for wallpaper paste with council vouchers.

What the actual fuck?

Yes EU citizens can travel to find employment and claim any benefits that they are entitled to whilst there. But the problem is that alot of the countries that were allowed to join the EU do not have the same system in place as the UK or the employment. So the movement of people that in theory should have taken place, did not.

Many posters on MN do not want to acknowledge the real unemployment that exsists around the country and immigration impacts on this further. The immigrants do not work any harder or for less by the way, that has been fabricated. I live amongst people who have never worked but are actively seeking work, the work is not there. The amount of people living off benefits as a lifestyle choice is small.

There are immigrants who know that they only have to work here for a year and then can have a better standard of living, living off benefits than they can in their own country. There have been people from other countries saying that they are happy to even be in our prison system than live where they are. Debate is needed not just calling people bigots. I have been shocked by the call from some on here for those on low wages not to reproduce and claim any benefits because afterall we can solve a population problem with immigration.

Hopefully also everyone is aware that assylum seekers are not allowed legally to work therefore the benefits they receive pending their application is to keep them alive and not a lot more.

Immigrants cannot get benefits straightaway. When I first migrated here and got my further leave to remain and then indefinite leave to remain, I had no recourse to public funds emblazoned all over it.

" I think for a lot of people it's thinly veiled racism."

Oh don't you just love it when you start to notice that you disagree with almost everything a particular poster says on here, and you think to yourself "cor that person seems a bit of an arse but I wonder if I am being uncharitable thinking that?" - and then they go and post something which definitively proves them to be a complete and utter arse and you thus have the green light to blithely ignore every last word they post from now on.

Very satisfying. Nice and tidy.

I've long since given up trying to argue against and reason with people who've been utterly convinced that:

1. Immigrants are 'swarming' into the country literally by their thousands, like a frightening and unstoppable immigranty flood.

and

2. That said swarmy immigrants are taking advantage of the UK by any/ all of the following- claiming benefits without contributing anything first/ refusing to get paid employment/ refusing to integrate with native British people/ slowly and sneakily trying to enofrce their dirty foreign 'values' upon us... ad infinitum.

May I recommend this book in relation to this subject matter:

The End of Tolerance: Racism in 21st Century Britain by Arun Kundnani.

www.amazon.co.uk/End-Tolerance-Racism-Century-Britain/dp/0745326455/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1300960321&sr=8-1

It was honestly a life-changing read. It's the most balanced, well-researched and (most importantly) accessible piece of research I've ever come across. It's so good in fact, that it changed some of my partner's more... 'sensationalism proclaiming' friends, which I NEVER thought possible.

OP, it may not change your mother's mind, but I've found it particularly useful to arm myself with lots arguments to launch against the tirade of ignorance spouted by people who are simply unable to research this matter properly for themselves.

RunsWithScissors so true. My friend is in your situation and hears the 'it doesn't apply to you' thing all the time. Figures because she's white and english is her first language people just don't see it as the same thing. Thinly veiled racism indeed.

Spent thousands on visas and interviews with the home office over the years too.

Oh and her passport was stamped with ' No recourse to public funds'. Perhaps that's code for please come collect your free cash?

I heard that all them immigrants actually get given money (from my tax what I pay) when they arrive at Gatwick. There's a man there who gives them all £5,000.00 just for coming here and then they get a book on how to steal all the jobs from the indiginous population and also how to get a council mansion for them and their children.

It makes me sick.

My mil and fill have a house in Spain. They go on and on about immigration into the uk (polish) but when I pointed out that it is no different they just couldn't see it. I also said the btw all the polish I know work several jobs and pay tax whereas they don't in Spain (other than rate type property tax) but are quite happy to go on and on about how great the healthcare and leisure centres in Spain are but think the polish should be in the uk.

They really really don't see it

So how do 'they' claim all these benefits then? I am Australian and lived in London for 10yrs. I had an ancestory visa as my Grandfather was born there. I worked and paid my taxes and NI the whole time I was there. I married Dh who is a Brit and had DD while I lived there. I could not claim any benefits at all. No child benefit, tax credits, nothing. Dh could claim them though.

I am in no way anti-immigration, i am from an immigrant background. But knee jerk reaction from either side do not help. I am for raising living standards across the whole of the EU because the amount of unemployment amongst the young people who are training for work and already skilled is so sad. Over populating some countries is not the answer.

Whoops they think the polish shouldn't be in the uk

I think this says everything I want to say.

Oh and Fabbychic said "What if it is true, why should anybody be able to come to the UK and be able to claim benefits when they have not contributed to the system?"

WHAT IF IT IS TRUE that Paul McCartney died in 1967 or something and that bloke who we think is Paul McCartney is actually not him, but someone who had cosmetic surgery to look a bit like him, and he is stealing the breath from our babies in the night? WHAT IF that were happening.

That would be bad.

Bupcakes, 'Nick Griffins' handmaidens' made me PMSL. (Bet it won't be long before it's an MN name, though )

Fabby and LadyThumb. You do know that what you're saying has no actual basis in fact don't you? But then, why let the facts get in the way of good old-fashioned prejudice...

Prejudice that's stoked by the press, imo. Did anyone else see Richard Peppiatt's resignation letter? I thought it gave a pretty accurate summary of how similar stories come to appear in the press in the first place:

www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/mar/04/daily-star-reporter-letter-full

Esselle- the can claim as EU citizens, you are not from the EU.