to think not everyone has someone to look after DCs whilst they give birth????

[deliakate]

For one reason or another, the two close friends we've made in this area since moving here 20 months ago are not going to be in a position to take DS (20 months) for as long as is needed whilst I give birth this May. I feel really embarrassed as have no family nearby that would do it either. So we are a bit stuck. He can go to our elderly neighbours, but not to sleep, and I know labour has a habit of going on all night sometimes!

Could we take DS to the hospital with us? And have him sleep in buggy somewhere? When he was born, I was moved into HDU, and there were about 10 medics in there, so he would have to have been outside the room. Would they even allow this?

What else can we do??? Surely we aren't the only ones in this position. Or is DH going to have to miss this birth?

You keep talking about being bullied yellowstone, but actually all anyone has done is point out that your rather harsh manner is upsetting to people, me included.

No one is bullying anyone, merely disagreeing with your very harsh point of view. For someone who can dish it out you certainly don't take to anyone questioning your views, do you?

You keep saying you are leaving but you keep coming back for another dig - and yet you claim you are being bullied.

I'm off now, but I sure you will post just one more time so you can have the final word :)

valium I don't 'keep' talking about being bullied, I've said it a couple of times since you and mathanxiety tried to ramp things up. It's hard to characterise mathanxiety's posts as anything else. There really is nothing 'very harsh' about my views and only one view has caused an issue: that a healthy baby after a normal birth even in the absence of a husband is a very good deal and one that many women with poor outcomes would give their eye teeth to have. I might have expressed that harshly but the dramatic wording of the posts which promted it got to me given the real drama I've seen. The vitriol that both of you have poured out is wholly disproportionate to that single view and the real issue with you both is that I've defended myself with perfectly reasoned arguments and found your comebacks wanting. I wasn't alone in the view I expressed, I was simply the only one to take you on and it's that which upset you.

This is personal from you both, my points weren't. That's how it should be. At least I don't snort in a wholly inappropriate way.

I don't come back 'for a dig', I come back to respond. 'Digging' is your turf not mine.

I don't tend to rise (as you claim to have done to some sort of vitriolic provocation) to insults, so I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you may actually be completely ignorant of what an Obergruppenfuhrer was in the Nazi Party and what sort of duties lay in their remit, though they were a varied bunch.

Obviously your Oxford-student DD is equally ignorant (and I am being kind to you both here) if she thought calling someone an Obergruppenfuhrer was simply a matter of using colourful language to illustrate some necessary point and hardly a deeply offensive term to use.

I recommend you both read a few biographies of famous Obergruppenfuhrers (or some histories of the Second World War). There may be some bios of Himmler, Heydrich, Kaltenbrunner, Bormann, or Kammler available at your library (maybe you've heard of some of these people?) -- they are a representative sample.

Sorrry plopp, not ploppy - Freudian slip (can I mention Freud? He was German).

Sorry too plopp for all the other spelling mistakes - I hammer out these posts so quickly, I wish there was an edit function. But I expect you get the gist.

Still, judging by the spelling erors on your own previous posts, I don't think you're a spelling Nazi (DD3 just reminded me that's the terminology used on TSR and at school).

The majority of the recent posts here are by you yellowstone, doesn't that tell you something?

BTW, not sure why are on earth you keep going on about my spiteful inlaws (yes not my parents). This is something you seem to think is going to upset me, like you think it must be my fault they were like this with me (I think you've actually said this) but this is a situation you know very little about and I actually don't give a crap about your opinion on it.

It tells me that I'm defending myself and that I make a lot of spelling mistakes which I then correct.

Hi there,
Apologies to all who have been reporting, we have mailed you all but we are experiencing some difficulties with our out-going emails, this is currently being looked at and we hope to have the emails sent very soon.

Can we please point you all back to the OP as this thread seems to have disintegrated into a bunfight that is completely off topic. We are all for freedom of speech but we're also here to make parents' lives easier, so we do have some rules and guidelines.

MNHQ

I was amongst the first to report I should think, ironically, but I've carried on responding until MN HQ came in to work.

math, your post about my daughter being ignorant seems to still be there. She says to say she's extremely well read and knowledgeable about the subject as indeed we all are and certainly have no need to visit the library. Her sister, also Oxford, has just completed a dissertation on the trials of precisely the men you mention. It would be hard for a family like ours, so closely connected with the Resistance, not to be knowledgeable.

On topic though as suggested I would add that my great aunt had to give birth in a derelict shed with no medical help whilst fleeing the Germans and whilst trying to care for her two year old son. The new baby was born with Down's and incredibly frail. Her husband was obviously not there. Of course these situations in war are unimaginably extreme but her courage and dignity and lack of complaint do colour my views and remembering her situation and that of countless others like her has helped me through some comparitively very trivial but still in contemporary terms pretty tough times.

We were in a similar situation too; sisters couldn;t help as ahd small chidlren / other commitmentss; Mum can;t drive and there' no train station just where we are so....

Plus 2 of the boys have ASD and we couln;t just bang on a door and say please Mr Neighbour can you hold them until Nan arrives? Ta

Also complicated by previous labour being 3 hours so quick, and Dh working nights over an hour away and sometimes not contactable / fetchable (eg if he'd taken van out he woud have had to return it, hand over, get home... easily exceeding 3 hours!).

So we hired a doula; I was luckily able to book a HB so DH could be with me but had I needed to go in doula could have accompanied me and I would not have been alone, something I dreaded.

As it happened, birth happened at night when Dh should have been on shift but had it as holiday (yay) and was a total of 35 minutes, Doula was first here, 1st MW just made it, 2nd didn;t and we were very grateful we had her all considered (boys slept through and came down to meet ds4 afterwards). Doulas can accompany sopeone through a CS or hospital birth too and are a good back up I think.

Seeing as my post (which wasn't even that bad) has been deleted, I will rephrase it slightly more politely . . .

Yellowstone - Please stop talking!

plopp just ignore posts if they're of no interest.

Two DDs in Oxford, a degree in logic and the wartime history of your family do not qualify you to tell others their birth experiences are trivial or cast aspersions on the family circumstances or personalities of individual posters.

Think that's hit the nail on the head.

I'm sorry math I missed your post but can infer from plopps.

I've got three DD's in Oxford though, if that makes a difference...fabulous colleges too, lucky girls (joke. Not about the three but about it making a difference).

Of course my own history and circumstances don't qualify me to tell anyone anything in particular. But they don't disqualify me from giving an opinion either. I should be in exactly the same position as any other MN poster sharing their experience to add to the sum total of experience on MN which is surely what gives MN its value?

I'm a human being too, with the same emotional susceptibilities as others. I was reprimanded quite fairly by Hab for ignoring the possibility of a back story for myred. I think it must be fairly obvious by now that I have at last one back story too.

Oh and also it was a degree in Law. But you can't do law without logic. A logic degree sounds rather Hogwarts (Joint Hons in Dark Arts and Logic?).

Please lets either not post or lets return to the thread. My feeling is that there is now a tension between overly raised expectations of childbirth and modern day to day circumstances and I think that it's this that MN wants to explore.

sorry, at least one back story too.

My feeling is that there is no emotional susceptibility or back story that could possibly excuse the comparison of a poster who objected to your tone or disagreed with the content of your posts to the architects of the Holocaust.

I think it's been fairly cogently explained in posts which have been retained that my comparison was emphatically not with the Holocaust or any aspect of it whatever. I think it's also been explained why I personally would never, ever make any such comparison.

Any reference made was intended purely to signify bullying and was no doubt de trop.

I'm sorry that you can't conceive of such susceptibilty or back story but I can't help you there any more since the back story is pretty much spelt out.

MN has asked us to abstain or to get back to the thread which I'm very willing to do. Can you please not carry this on.