to think that Toby Young is a complete arse?

[Rosebud05]

Why I am I having to say for the second time that he's a very bright guy?

Does no one listen around here?

You can be very bright but still be an arse though. His brightness does not cancel that out.

I'm sure he is clever. That doesn't mean he is right.

SWC - I don't think it is lazy, they asked residents on a local council estate if they would use the free school (on a documentary about it) and the residents were reluctant to gamble their children's education on the whim of a bunch of people with no experience and woolly ideas about a classical education.

I'd say these people have more to lose if it all goes tits up.

Lol at free schools being woolly. Compared to the NC.

No he can be bright and an arse. I'm glad everyone thinks he's bright. Good judgement.

Wow, I'm enjoying this. 2cats, I am NOT Toby Young but are you Fiona Millar? You're doing really well at parroting the well worn argument about taking funds away from other local schools to pay for his pet project. There is a very significant shortage of secondary and indeed primary places in that area of London and others. The LEA would have to provide sufficient places and Govt funding is supplied on the basis of number of children and then passported onto schools as somebody correctly described. There is NO QUESTION OF DIVERSION OF FUNDS. TY's school is very oversubscribed as is the new Hammersmith Academy. So if they are both oversubscribed, does that not suggest that there is demand for additional places and that no schools are going to be left with fewer pupils. (That is not a trick question.)

Also, do you and others who oppose Free Schools and Academies really think that 1 size fits all and that the LEA as the monopoly provider of state funded education must be allowed to maintain that monopoly even if it is rubbish? Maybe this is about saying to parents as the real consumers of education that you should and can have a choice about which provider you want to use. It's not as if our education system particularly in inner cities is so wonderful that it cannot be improved. And please don't bother anybody coming out with the hackneyed old argument about LEA schools being democratically accountable. Between 30-40% of people vote in Local Elections and unless they have school age children do not give a bugger about the local schools. Besides, LEAs do not control schools and have not done so since 1988 when the vast majority of funding was devolved to schools to manage their budgets as they wish.

Finally, to idiotic Polly Toynbee acolytes, the fiscal position of the UK is very perilous thanks to epic fiscal incontinence under Labour. This is the reality of Labour leaving the country bankrupt as usual. And please don't bother giving me a lecture on deficits, the national debt et al. I read Economics at Cambridge.

a free school just got turned down where I live.

I am cock-a-hoop

Well gosh.

Oh and 2cats... Academy sponsors cannot make money, have never been able to make money, are not private companies masquerading as charities and organisations like ARK and EACT are doing masses to improve the life chances of some very deprived children through strong leadership and using the freedoms that Academy status allows.

If you don't believe me, google Sir Michael Wilshaw and Mossbourne Academy for what can be done. Inevitably the left can't bear how successful Mossbourne is because it shoots down in flames their sneering, patronising, statist one size fits all approach to education.

As Smallwhitecat says, the ability of the left to ignore inconvenient facts is without equal.

So effectively Toby Young's school will have the same non-selective intake as other primary schools in the area, the same budget, but will produce better results and generally be a better school experience.

Well if that is how it is going to work, then great. It will be a good state school.

Well I shall anyway!

Beeecause.

The free school group said they wanted a free school because the two non-faith state secondaries in that area were, and I quote 'not really H**e sort of schools'. I cannot beging to think what this means, and they have not clarified, but I suspect it's because their catchment areas are - ahem - pretty mixed.

It happens that the area also has a lot of well-to-do streets in it, and it is from these that the request for a free school has emerged.

I think that if they had been succesful, the two other schools in question would have suffered significantly both in intake and in regard, as the stated reason was that they were not good enough for these people. Neither is failing or even satisfactory, AFAIK.

There are enough secondary places in this city - something like 97% of children get their first choice school. So I do not see the need for 185 middle class (and yes, they are) children to set up a little ghetto for themselves.

Oh and 'H**e' is the area of town, not the name of the city!

Good arguing skillz.

Joan, what are you talking about? 97% of children get their first choice secondary school in West London? Please clearly cite your source for this nonsence. BTW, you cannot see things just in terms of boroughs. After the Greenwich ruling, you can apply to and go to a school in any borough provide you meet the admissions criteria which are laid down as SWC said in the admissions code which TY and everybody else must abide by.

Joan, when TY allocates places, let us take a look at the ethnic and socio-economic mix and see exactly how much of a middle class ghetto it is going to be, shall we?

You may be disappointed to learn that poor people want to choose an academically rigourous school and want their kids to get on in exactly the same way as all of us posting on this thread want... fancy that!!!

Private companies do not run the schools, but groups from business, religions control the governing body of schools allowing the teaching of rubbish such as creationism and allowing them to opt out of national programmes such as sex ed and policies such as maternity pay. The unions will also have to bargain school by school about pay and conditions.

Us lefties and our fashionable convictions, eh?

As they say, the proof of the pudding...

I have great admiration for anyone who puts their motivation where their mouth is and gets a school established where it's needed. Good for Toby Young, and good for the parents in Lambeth who got Elm Green built etc etc.

But boo to men who write trite blog articles slagging of women and using sexist derogatory language, and boo to state funded schools which set their own admissions criteria - including state schools.
Just look at the thread in 'Secondary Education' about Kingsdale: because all the schools in Southwark are now academies the admissions procedures mean parents cannot guarantee that their child will get into a school that is nearby, because of lottery systems rather than proximity, selective intakes etc etc.
IMO Toby Young's school has an admission policy that is discriminatory, but it's the whole Free School policy which is at fault re admissions, not those parents who get motivated and take the opportunity.
And I still wouldn't want to send my child to a school where a governor finds it acceptable to write about women in such a dismissive and rude fashion.

NormanTebbit are you barking mad? You are suggesting that Academies and Free Schools can opt out of legislation like maternity pay?

I would belt up now if I were you because you are clearly not in control of the material.

Actually yes they can. They can pay staff on a termly contract or by the day. This is increasingly common. My daughter's fantastic teacher has no idea if she has a job after the Easter holidays.

They then get Statutory Maternity Pay.

Sorry - "boo to state funded schools which set their own admissions criteria - including faith schools.

I'm quite pro free schools but this one is quite terrifying. This organisation is linked to the natural law party (yogic flying anyone?) which means that political parties might be able to set up free schools.

Can I just say, that some of you are coming across complete arses rather aggressive?