I can take it if I am, honest! (Long - sorry). Maybe more of a WWYD?

[itisnotgoingwelltoday]

I'm having a lot of what I think are small irritations with my ex husband and I need some perspective.

DD's are 12 and 9.

I've posted before about how he expects me to remember what he is doing with the kids and remind him

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1157907-To-think-my-XH-should-NOT-be-ringing-me-about-this

So, anyway, last week he was supposed to be picking the kids up after school on Thursday (as I work early on a Friday he takes them to school on Friday morning).

But it didn't suit him so he phoned me and asked if I would get them - which I did, I can do a good bit of stuff from home so I organised myself and collected them.

I'd asked him what time he'd be picking them up from mine at, he said 5.15, so I said "So, you'll give them tea then?" Obviously, he said yes he would.

To cut a long story short (coz this is long enough already lol) he was uncontactable on his mobile so I gave the kids their tea and he eventually turned up at 7.20pm

So this week he turned up on Tuesday to drop some stuff off, and DD1 realised she'd left some uniform things at his. He totally went off on one, kicking the kerb and shouting at me. I said "How did you not realise she'd gone in sports stuff from yours in the morning"

Again, to cut a long story short, it has transpired that he does not get up in the morning before DD1 goes to school, she gets herself and DD2 ready, they muck out horses, she makes packed lunches for them and then she gets the bus to school. He then gets up in time to take DD2 to school.

He has also gone back on a promise he made to DD2 to go to a show she has on Saturday night.

So, WWYD? I need to get him to turn up on time or call me if he's going to be late.

And I am very unhappy about the kids getting themselves up and out in the morning.

I always did a lot more at my dad's than at my mum's - my sister used to do his laundry and I used to do the shopping. We didn't mind, especially because we got fizzy pop and chocolate every night and pocket money for doing it.

It's great if they get up and do the ponies, and if they can get themselves ready for school. I agree he should get up but some parents just don't (DSS's mum has left him to get his own breakfast since he was about 8. It has always made DH feel sad to think of his son getting himself ready to school and eating alone etc but it isn't our place to interfere.)

You can't control what goes on in the other house, so you should just leave them to it unless you seriously think there is a safety issue. But all the shouting at you and turning off his mobile etc is just plain horrible. Focus on the real problems and tackle him on that.

I can't get a childminder in this area who is prepared to take them from 7am which is the time on a Monday and Friday that I need to be away by.

They do usually take school dinners - packed lunches are only on the days they don't fancy the dinners. Probably about 1/3 of the time for DD2, DD1 slightly less.

The point I tried to make to him last Thursday was that he'd said he'd be at mine just after 5-ish, what if I'd had plans to go out?

His answer was "But you didn't"

I didn't, but he didn't know that

Maybe discuss with your dd's what they are happy to do. Then all four of you sit down and try to work a compromise. It is good they learn some responsibility and having ponies is hard work. Tell ex until all three of you are happy with the care he provides you'll then talk about a 50/50 arrangement.

What care is he providing? I mean, really? He is not up in the morning, he doesn't see his DD1 before she leaves for school, he just about manages to get DD2 to school. He doesn't cook their meals, their granny does; he doesn't do any of the cleaning, laundry or washing up because either they do or granny does; he doesn't always spend time with them on the evenings he does have them - so apart from a roof over their heads (which they don't need cos they have one with you already) - what care is there?

From a quick read, it sounds like there are two issues, which you need to separate in your mind.

1. How he is with the DDs when they are at his. Yes, you might not like it that he doesn't get up to see DD1 off, or that he expects them to do more chores, but in a lot of ways that's up to him and his judgement as a parent, which you can't control.

1. Being late / forgetting stuff that he's said he will do with the DDs. This is separate, and I would really try to pick him up on. He said he'd be there at 5.15, and was 2 hours late . That's not acceptable in anyone's book.

How is he putting his children in danger? I've said I find the thing about mucking out unsupervised a bit odd, and yes, I can see that it could be dangerous (although I'd presumed ponies would not actually be in stable whilst stable was being mucked out.

But not the rest of it.

You find it unacceptable that a 12 year old has to get a 9 year old ready, but that's just a difference of opinion with him, not actually a big deal, and my attitude is that it's just the way it is, difference of opinion, agree to disagree.

If I were him I would get rid of the ponies - he clearly can't be arsed to do waht needs doing ie: supervising the kids to muck them out when it's their turn.

You can take it, but you keep arguing against it!

If I wasn't off sick and bored, I'd probably have just put 'YABU'

Oh for the love of God that BLOODY italic thing!

I would sit the girls down and tell them both that dd1 no longer has responsibility to get dd2 up/moving in the morning. Give dd2 a travel alarm clock if necessary.

Hairylights - have you any experience of ponies?

They are unpredicatable and can be dangerous just like any animal.

These are big ponies, not tiny Shetlands (although Shetlands are bad tempered buggers at time). They are 13'2 and 14'2 respectively.

They could jump, rear, bite, kick - anything really

Yup. Grew up on farms among horses, goats, cows etc.

They should not be in the stable whilst it's being mucked out.

Thumbwitch - you said that so much better than I have.

That's the point I'm trying to make - all he is doing is providing a roof over their heads, he's not actually actively caring

So, by making them muck out and feed the ponies in the mornings, would you think he's being reckless/careless as to the danger?

He sounds really crap, I completely understand you being upset. He sounds like one of those men who think they don't have to lift a finger if women are around (you, his mother, your daughters). Expecting breakfast in bed every day! SERIOUSLY! And his mum used to make him a fry up EVERY MORNING?! SERIOUSLY?!

He seems to be training your daughters to serve him as well what with all the cleaning of the kitchen/ mucking out the horses/making lunches/dishwasher/etc. I agree they should be encouraged to do things for themselves but what does he do? Nothing by the sounds of it. What does he do for his daughters? He sounds like a boy-man. Pathetic and incapable.

Mucking out horses is dangerous anyway let alone for unattended children. One kick from the horse and one of your children could be killed or left brain damaged (expecting lots of horse owners to dissagree but I do have a bit of experience here and they can be bloody dangerous).

As for mornings . . . well tough on him if he's not a "morning person". He should get up and spend the time with his children, make sure they are ok and check they have what they need. That doesn't mean he has to do everything for them but he should be there for them.

Let me ask you all something. If I put a thread up saying 'I say stay in bed til 9am and let DD get herself ready for school' What do you think the response would be? I think I would, quite rightly, get a flaming and if it ever came out that I was a SAHM and a single parent, well, the daily mail readers would have me for child neglect!

Itsnot I have already said, that I had assumed horses were out of the stable whilst the kids were mucking out. And that if they are not, then yes, that is a dangerous scenario.

If I were you I would calmly raise this with him, and IMHO if he's not prepared to take responsibility for supervising the girls mucking out, or removing the horses so that they can do so, as the adult in the scenario, he should get rid of the horses.

Like I said, he's a bit of a numpty by the sounds of it.

However, complete over reaction about the dishwasher etc.

I just think you need to focus on the big stuff and not get wound up about the less important, not damaging, small stuff.

OP, I don't think YABU, but I don't think you can control how your X parents (shame!!).

Can you -

1 ascertain how dangerous it actually is for the DDS to muck out? If it genuinely is, better they don't have the ponies if your X will not supervise. Also better for the ponies if, as you suspect, they are not being taken care of properly otherwise.

2 talk to DD2 and explain to her that is a difficult situation and she needs to do what her big sister says.

3 talk to XH about giving you more notice and not having his phone off.

Not perfect but I think the best you're going to get!

A fry up. On a silver tray. To the side of the bed. Before he woke up.

Yes, really.

DD1 has a bit of wit and ties the ponies outside to the bars of the "window" on the stable while she mucks them out, but still she shouldn't be doing it. Not on her own. His answer when I raised it with him was that I could come and do them then.

Which he knows I can't on the mornings I have to be away early.

mmsmum - that's a very very good point. Suppose I was a young single mum, on benefits, in a council house, my child was getting their own packed lunch, getting themselves ready and out the door in the morning and my mother was doing all the washing and cooking......

As far as the turning up late goes I think YANBU, he made an arrangement, which was doing him a favour anyway, and then let you down.

As far as everything else goes I think YABU. He chooses to parent in a way that is different to you, that doesnt make him wrong, just different. If your DD disliked making pack up that much then she'd choose to have school dinners on those days. The pony thing I cant see is dangerous, if they're allowed to ride them, they should be allowed to muck them out. Although I cant see the point in having them as presumably they never get a chance to ride them.

Asking children to help with stuff like clearing the table and washing up is fair IMO, particularly at 9 and 12. My DC aged 5 and 3 are expected to lay and clear the table.

Thumbwitch, I think you're being pretty unfair. If the level of care is based upon whether you do their washing or are with them before school, then presumably any parent who has a cleaner or nanny is less caring than one who doesnt

I can do the ponies on most days of the week if I get up really really early and I would have to bring the girls with me to his house, do the ponies and then come back here to get showered and out in time for school/work. But I could I suppose.

The issue over the dishwasher was only, hairy, to show that he really does nothing in terms of cooking/cleaning/caring - not that I care that they are doing it.

Ballstoit - they ride on a Monday evening, on a Friday night, most Saturday afternoons and a lot of Sundays.

And there is land at his house where they can ride them if they aren't out at organised events.

Who pays for the ponies?

We bought them 50/50, the stables are at his, but I pay half the feed and also I pay half the farrier and half the clothes.

He provides the vehicle to pull the horsebox, I put the fuel in the jeep.

It works out pretty much 50/50, or as near as we can make it without it getting ridiculous down to the last penny.

horses are dangerous for children to handle by themselves - they're not always predictable - if something spooks one of them, they could either kick out (either in or out of the stable); and if they're being led in or out, they could jerk away and run off. Then what?
If they're still in the stable when it's being mucked out then that's really scary.

I have a friend who has had her own horse since she was 9. By the time she was 13 she was allowed to do stuff with the horse unsupervised - her pony was 14.2, iirc. But she still got damaged every now and then - possibly one of the worst (in terms of long term effect) was while trying to get the animal in a trailer - he refused and reared up and twisted round. In trying to keep hold of him she damaged both rotator cuffs in her arms.

I think perhaps if we thought about this as if it were just the 9yo, it would be more shocking - who would let a 9yo do any of that stuff by themselves? (apart from the dishwasher/washing up, that's fine)

Presumably they do one pony each? So effectively the 9yo IS doing hers by herself?

"A fry up. On a silver tray. To the side of the bed. Before he woke up.

Yes, really."

He is quite clearly a nobber.

I still think the horses should just be gotten rid of. He clearly can't take responsibility for them.