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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Babies and Toddlers in shopping malls past 8pm

176 replies

littlebillie · 05/03/2011 23:50

AIBU but I really, really hate to see toddlers in buggies and babies in prams from 8pm at these shopping malls.

I escaped this week for 2 hours to my local large shopping centre and was met, as usual with the bawling overtired thoroughly exasperated small children. I just want to stop each mother or group of mothers(!) and ask them to take their babies home so I can shop in peace and give their childrend a good night's sleep.

I just think is one of the examples of child abuse in our society. Anyone who thinks this is acceptable behaviour is just selfish.

OP posts:
WideWebWitch · 06/03/2011 00:31

Oh well, let's agree to disagree then rinabean

I think small children should get enough sleep
I think anyone who thinks it's ok to drag them around a mall past 8pm is unkind

You don't, fine.

GypsyMoth · 06/03/2011 00:31

Fgs!! Try visiting Italy or Spain......

fatlazymummy · 06/03/2011 00:33

It actually really annoys me when people use the term 'child abuse' for such trivial reasons. Still I suppose ignorance is bliss for some people.

GypsyMoth · 06/03/2011 00:38

I know, this is very trivial...... But quite funny really as op is sooooo self riteous!

Op. Do you have dc???

Original poster
littlebillie · 06/03/2011 00:38

fatlazymummy, check up on the definition and you find that in the spirit of my rant, I wasn't far of the mark.

OP posts:
Morloth · 06/03/2011 00:39

I think you need to get out more.

Not everyone lives the same way you know what does it matter which 10 hours a kid sleeps? Just cause you are a bit of a nana doesn't mean everyone is.

There is no moral superiority in getting up early you know.

coinoperatedgirl · 06/03/2011 00:40

As a one off children are capable of staying up late, been there done that. They will catch up with lost sleep, I don't think it's cruel or abuse to keep them up past bedtime once in awhile.

As long as they get enough sleep generally, the odd day won't matter. I can't imagine late night shopping with a toddler, sounds a bit like hell. But for a one off meh, you don't know if those people were shopping for a special occasion/one off.

fatlazymummy · 06/03/2011 00:41

littlebillie you are miles off the mark. If the child is in a buggy or pram they will fall asleep if they are tired.
So hardly abuse.

WideWebWitch · 06/03/2011 00:44

I think the thing is that this is reasonably common isn't it?

So we're not talking one off visits for nappies, we're talking people generally thinking a bedtime of 10pm is ok for small children.

When IMO it isn't!

Original poster
littlebillie · 06/03/2011 00:45

Self rightous.. hilarious. I find that all Mumsnet is. WE are entitled to our opinions, that is beauty of the site and it is great that it is here. I have learned a lot by reading other threads and some are very useful, some inane and some illuminating.

I have found tonight interesting as so many think this is norm, perhaps it is.

OP posts:
GypsyMoth · 06/03/2011 00:47

Www says it's the norm

WideWebWitch · 06/03/2011 00:47

And if nobody ever says "hang on, 10pm is a bit late for 3 yos" then how are people supposed to know?

Because it just is too late IMO for such small children

Again I stress I'm not talking special occasions, I'm talking about generally

countless · 06/03/2011 00:49

haha wee willie winkie is not happy!

BeerTricksPotter · 06/03/2011 00:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BertieBotts · 06/03/2011 01:01

I used to have some friends whose 2 year old regularly went to bed at 10 or 11pm. And woke up at 10 or 11am. Parents got a lie in. Child got 12 hours' sleep. What is the problem with that? He's now at school so I imagine he has an earlier bedtime, haven't seen them for ages though.

I know people object to it massively but I don't understand why! Why is 10pm too late for a 3yo, if they get up at say 10am? It's not ideal because you miss out on activities etc which are scheduled during the day between 9am and about 5pm. But then you might not want to do those activities anyway.

I think people just object because it's different. I honestly don't see any harm in it at all as long as the child is getting enough sleep. But what loon would take their child out at 10pm and then wake them at 6am?

BertieBotts · 06/03/2011 01:03

Littlebillie - I think this is the mumsnet bubble effect TBH. Most people I know in RL would be just as horrified as you are. The good/bad thing about mumsnet is as soon as you start a thread like this you attract loads of people who are in a minority and are miffed about it. Whereas the people who agree with the majority probably don't care that much. So you get a disproportionate representation of the minority viewpoint.

WideWebWitch · 06/03/2011 01:05

Er bertiebotts, many people have to do this thing called work

Which rather precludes lying in until 10am because your toddler does

Emmanana · 06/03/2011 01:17

It may have been a single mum, finished work for the day, picked LO up from minder/nursery, and that is the only time she has, to shop, and she may not have anyone who could babysit.
Selfish: judging someone else without knowing anything about them, in order to justify your displeasure at not having the exclusive company of adult shoppers.

Morloth · 06/03/2011 01:19

But if you don't have to be out the door then why does it matter if the kid sleeps 10pm-10am? I did this with DS1. We didn't need to be anywhere so he would stay up late and we would sleep late. Worked great as DH doesn't get home until after 8pm most nights so it meant they got to see each other.

Now DS1 is at school and we have to be up at 7ish, DS2 is in bed by 7pm with DS1 asleep by 8:30pm, then we are all up together for breakfast before work/school, but they don't see their dad in the evenings during the week.

I just can't see what is so special about 7-7 as opposed to 10-10?

GypsyMoth · 06/03/2011 01:21

Nothing is special about it... Nothing

BertieBotts · 06/03/2011 01:21

I wasn't talking about that though. I was talking about if you didn't have to get them up at a specific time. Sorry, I thought that was obvious from the waking up at 10 or 11 thing?

Anyway any toddler who had been up since 7 or 8am would be asleep from exhaustion by 10pm. (Well actually.. possibly not DS Hmm) Not happily wandering around a shopping centre. Which sort of suggests that the children who are screaming from tiredness are probably not used to being up at that time, so it's most likely to be an emergency trip anyway. And the ones that are happy are probably getting enough sleep.

thatgirlsevil · 06/03/2011 01:28

YABU...unless the child is visibly distressed.

My LO (3.1) is ALWAYS in bed for 7pm or thereabouts, but I was in Edinburgh for the weekend a couple of months back and I felt affronted by the disparaging looks I attracted because he was out at 9pm in an independent cinema cafe.

It might have had something to do with the several pints of continental lager on the table...but even so, we were all a little merry rather than rolling on the floor pissed as arseholes...and the kid was loving the attention he was getting from my friends and the lovely cooing middle-aged group occupying the table nearest to us.

I remember nights out late with my parents with the most warming sense of nostalgia. I think it's a bit sad that a lot of kids these days will miss out on that experience for fear of disrupting their rather rigid schedule.

ColdHeartedBitch · 06/03/2011 01:35

So its not the fact that they are up but the fact that they are screaming. What about those children that do nothing but scream when they are awake. some children are screamers. never content.

Ds was one of those. perpetually frustrated. And it turns out with a sleep disorder. Not only would you have found us out with him after 8pm but often at 2am just to get a break from the screaming for the 10min ride which would be all the sleep he needed for the next 4 hours. if he wasn't taken out we would have gone mad. One person took ds out to scream in a different location whilst the other person got 2 hours sleep, and if they were lucky slept through the screaming for a few more hours because they were in a deep enough sleep.

Just because a child is screaming when they are out and it happens to be after the bedtime that you deam appropriate doesnt mean that they are tired.

it would appear that you are cross because you had gone out shopping at a time when you thought you would be more likely to shop in peace. Sorry but unless you have a rediculous amount of money you arent going to be able to ensure your ideal shopping conditions.

Dont judge other people by your standards either. you dont know their circumstances. And children being out late shopping is an inconvience for you but not necessarily the route of all harm for the child.

Oh and if i could have been bothered to get dressed again last night you would have found me and ds (6) in our local 24hr shop at around 4am. He got up for the day at 2am, having slept 6hrs.

confuddledDOTcom · 06/03/2011 01:39

My children never had a bedtime until they naturally fell into an 8pm bedtime, then I used the clock change to bring it to 7pm Wink to get them ready for nursery routines. I agree that they still get 10 hours whatever time they go down, just because a child is lying in doesn't mean the parents do too - generally I get 3-6 hours sleep, all I've ever needed to sleep - it gives the parents time in the morning to get other things done, breakfast in peace.

I always did shopping late because I don't drive and I prefer to shop with a scooter so that means a particular shop because my local branch only has wheelchairs and I'm not able to push those so needed to rely on someone who works to take me. I also find it easier to be shopping late with a baby and a scooter (there are limited numbers of scooters and it's harder to get round when there's lots of people around).

ExeterisEasy · 06/03/2011 01:40

what a pathetic comment. maybe people are sick of hearing your snot nosed brats whining when they are trying to eat their lunch.