Deep sigh... Roadside 'Tributes'

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

Am I very unreasonable to hate them?

We have a road that I travel on quite often, it's locally known as 'Death Valley'. It's been the site of several fatal accidents, namely because people overtake and misjudge the traffic in the opposite direction.

Anyway... some of the lampposts are absolutely festooned with dirty and torn teddies and dead flowers and banners and goodness knows what... until mothers' day, birthday, Christmas or some other memorable day results in even more stuff being added. Some of these accidents happened five years ago or more.

This isn't common all over the UK, just in spots. I've often seen a cross on a verge, with perhaps a small wreath but nothing on the scale of 'Death Valley'.

I drove past one of the 'festooners' today, putting some garish finishing touches to a memorial picture (the size of a dartboard), with fairy lights. She was darting across the road and I think it's a matter of time before she becomes part of the tribute scene.

It goes without saying that I feel dreadfully sad for the bereaved families but WHY exactly, does the accident site have to become an impromptu display of ostentatious grief? I really hate it...

ShavingGodfreysPrivates... Absolutely!

I don't want a tribute when I do, mind. ;)

Yes, I read the Daily Mail readers' comments, and I am very disappointed in their readers on this issue. Usually , the Mail readers are spot on on every subject. I can only imagine that they were infiltrated by Guardian readers for this article.

The father who lost his daughter explains why it is so important to lay flowers where his daughter died.

"That's where Debbie took her last breath so it is very important to us."

But the council executive officer fails to fully understand that. A small tribute on a dual carriageway has caused no problems for many years. Why do some councils want to ban tributes, however small, after 30 days? Why are they OK and safe for 30 days, but not OK afterwards? What is the bureaucratic reasoning behind the jobsworths decisions? Have they listened to the grieving parents?

I don't want a tribute when I do, mind

Of course not and I shall respect your wishes.

< uncrosses fingers and checks stockpile of teddy bears, football shirts and cellophane >

Claig... It's important to him but why should his wishes override everyone elses? Going by his logic, everybody should be able to put up shrines wherever they feel like it. What then, then they get bigger and more elaborate? Will there be anything left of the country or will it be a giant shrine to whomever? I'm being flippant there I know but there are public places that people can use to demonstrate their love for deceased persons. I don't believe that the public highway is that place.

Some people think 30 days is too long, I agree with that also. For preference, there shouldn't be tributes in a danger spot at all but if there must, the life of a bunch of a fresh flowers (sans cellophane) is long enough to illustrate the point. The councils have been very sensitive on this issue for many years as they haven't tackled it previously when they could legitimately have done so. They have listened to the grieving parents; from that article you can see that they have polled the public and asked for their opinion. Most people do not want tributes and some of the comments there have been quite forthright.

I'm smiling at your suggestion that Guardian readers have usurped the website to comment on the Daily Mail article... perish the thought!

Moondog... I've read that synopsis now, very interesting reading. I didn't realise that there was a wave of thinking and research on the subject.

ShavingGodfreysPrivates... Eek! Prepare to be haunted...

But it's not a problem, there aren't shrines all over the country. As a community, i think we should respect grieving parents' wishes for small tributes at roadsides where their loved ones died.

I don't believe the councils' polls. Ket them have a referendum, then we will see what the public think. More people joined the protest than took part in their poll. Let's see if they are so adamant about a 30 day limit when grieving parents refuse to obey.

Most people want hanging and are against immigration, but the councils take no notice of them. But they claim that most people are against roadside tributes.

Sorry, Claig, I understand what you're saying but I really don't agree with you.

If grieving parents refuse to follow the rule and force councils to take action then it's not grief so much as bloody-mindedness. Grieving doesn't need to be public and if it does then perhaps help should be sought.

OK we will have to agree to disagree. It will be interesting to see what happens in Bolton with that protest.

'Grieving doesn't need to be public and if it does then perhaps help should be sought.'

No, it's doesn't need to be, but sometimes it just is. Would it make you feel more comfortable to not have to see someone cry in public, or to not see flowers laid at a memorial? Perhaps you should ask yourself why that is. And seek help for it.

I think deemented is right. I think there is a reason which lies behind the hostility to roadside tribute expressions of grief. It is a normal human reason based on fear. But I don't think it should override the rights of grieving parents.

I find it a sobering reminder to drive more carefully too. Laying flowers at the scene of a tragedy is something people can do when there is nothing they can do, y'know?

I think there is something in that deemented. Some of us (including myself if I'm honest) find public displays of extreme emotions troublesome. And I think that does colour my reaction to this. However that does not take away from the fact that there is a point when the local authorities have a right to intervene - when displays get too big, and they have become torn and tattered and unsightly, or years after the event.

Someone said earlier that we are getting better at dealing with death. I think the opposite is true - we are more protected from the realities of death so when it hits us we react most extremely. It is wrong to assume that only wild emotional displays of grief are genuine and healthy.

I fucking hate anyone who has an issue with this. Selfish beyond BELIEF.

Incidentally, moondog, sentimentality in the link you mentioned doesn't really cover these tributes e.g. it refers to: "an excess of emotion that is false, mawkish, and over-valued by comparison with reason".

Many roadside tributes are set by parents who have lost children. It would be very hard to reconcile this statement with their experience.

Many cultures are "sentimental" and grieve publicly and with rituals and rites. I don't believe it is a modern phenomenon and I certainly don't believe it is toxic. I think the abhorrence of grief and discomfort at loss is probably, and a friend has a theory it is quite "British", probably reflecting the tremendous losses that were suffered in the world wars. She tells me her great-grandparents would have mourned more publicly than her grandmother or mother (post-war).

My 2p - They are a way of coming to terms with an act of violence that has robbed someone of a person that they loved. I've been bereaved by road crash, and there are three aspects of it that I found hardest to come to terms with; the violence, the senselessness, and the publicity. The list one has suffered fatal physical and mental trauma whilst on public view, possibly photographed for the paper, probably with no-one to say goodbye or hold their hand, and often before anyone arrives to reassure or give pain relief. The site of the crash often holds visual reminders, apart from the initial mess there could be a replaced roadsign, repointed wall, mismatched bit of fence.

It is entirely different (different, not worse) than a death in hospital or at home, or a natural and timely one.

I did not feel the need to leave a roadside shrine, but I can fully understand why some people want to mark the terrible spot with something soft and gentle to try and ease just 0.01% of the horror that they suddenly have to carry.

The lost one, not list one.

I think that rotting teddies and flowers are a bit grim. But they make me slow down and think about safe driving, so I won't complain.

How can anyone understand why people put the shrines there unless they have been through it. I never look at them and think bloody hell thats so garish. I would be look likely to think what a bloody shame and how can we do something about this road tbh

I haven't read all of the replies because I also (like working9while5) think the OP's attitude is very selfish.

I hope very much that the poor people who are grieving those killed in road accidents find comfort in the tributes. I feel nothing but sorrow when I see flowers and photos, no matter how long they've been there.

To judge someone else's grief and memorial as tacky is abhorent. :(

more likely

I have never liked them because they are a sobering reminder

I dislike them even more as they make me feel the way I did when they told me about neil

I wouldn't do it myself but I dont mind other people doing it

personally I dont want to ever go back to that spot on that road

In 19th Century Britain the upper classes had quite a complex set of rules and behaviour regarding mourning. This is the period when the term 'widows weeds' was coined as a widow was expected to wear black for up to 4 years following the death of her spouse, sometimes for life. Loss of sibling meant wearing black for 6 months but the death of a child had no 'time limit' on this public sign of grief.

Nowadays we no longer have such strict 'rules' about how/when we are allowed to show our grief. It is down to the individual to express their loss, which is how a civilised society should be IMO.

But I am older and middle class, and I fully understand why people grieve in this way, and I am against all bureaucrats who try to stifle natural human emotions.

This is entirely different to the Princess Diana thing. I thought the Princess Diana grief was worrying. I felt it was close to fascistic and I understood how easily millions could be swayed to follow leaders. I remember going into Tescos and being immediately asked if I wanted to sign a book of condolence, and there was a queue signing it. I remember feeling like an outcast when I said no. It wasn't because I wasn't sad that Diana had died, but it was because I didn't know her and for me signing a book of condolence was false.

The discussion might be about that, Forsythia, but as a road safety campaigner who has met many bereaved families, the reality isn't about that IME. The only group I would identify as being more likely to leave a public shrine is parents.