Ex forces members as schoolteachers, (Panorama tonight?)

[GabbyLoggon]

Are they being unreasoable?

Its a government idea copied from America
(suprise, suprise)

Training ex forces members to be schoolteachers (It has always been open for them to do that.)

Is it a gimmick? The trouble is Cameron learned from Blair the art of regular publicity stunts.

So it is difficult to know what to take seriously.

What do the teaching profession think of it? "Gabby"

Just popping on to give my support to scary and sidge .

DH spent 3 years teaching officers, junior ranks and 17/18/19 year olds. The qualification he has enables him to teach adults, if he so chooses when he goes into "civvy street".
He also is classed as a manager (sgt) and it means that he is used to dealing with everyone from the 18year old SAC on hhis first posting away from home, to the problems of the 42 year old Cpl's having with his teenage son.
He also, due to themanner of his work now, deals with everyone frofrom thestation commnader down, so I object to some of the sterotypes being bandied around on here.

RobF, I am happy with someone with no other experience than academia giving my child their opinion of or guidance in careers, with, quite possibly, a leaning towards academia.

I do not and never will feel happy about a former member of armed forces personnel extolling the (IMHO dubious) virtues of a life in military service. It's for this reason that my children do not attend Cadets in their spare time.

I make no judgement on those who are happy to have an ex forces member praising the military and encouraging their children to make it a career consideration/choice, but I'd raise bloody hell if anyone did so to my children. At present I'm not convinced that a former serviceman or woman come teacher wouldn't do so.

That is added to my other objection, which is that it appears that servicemen and women would not be expected to undergo the same training or have the same qualifications as non ex-military staff. If I'm wrong on that one I will take it back.

Meditrina and others, I am not saying that many people in the army wouldn't make good teachers. I just think that each person should be awarded a teacher training place based on their merits and no additional benefits should be given to someone in securing such a place just because they have been in the forces.

Val - but how do you know that the ex-forces person will try and persuade your child that the Armed forces is the life for them?

And by the way, RobF, I was educated by lots of middle class people. That was many, many years ago. Teaching has moved on since and many of those I now know, friends and family alike, are from the lower classes :o and do have a bloody good idea of life in the outside world.

I don't see that going from school at 16, 17 or 18 and then spending the next X amount of years in the military is particularly like living in the real outside world.

I agree Val particularly if said personal have lived on a base too.

Mila - sometimes those young adults are not there because they want to be there, they're there because they feel that they have no other choice. And you can drop out during training if you really want to.

SnapFrakkle we have a couple of military schools here, the Duke Of York and the Royal Hospital schools. They're not purely military in that they accept civvies but the ethos of the schools is strongly military.

I understand that they are outstanding schools.

Well Mila, Bulgarian would have been very useful at my school where we had Bulgarian kids who didn't speak English! Incidentally, I am a teacher, so I do know what is involved, thanks so much, and I think, with the training, some ex military personnel would do it very well, and certainly better than some teachers I've worked with who cry each time a teenager says boo to them.

Again, many in the Forces are well versed in stroppy teenagers as they have their own.

They will also have the art of communicating their subject and breaking it down into it's constituent parts. 'Being able to teach is a true gift'...sad that so many I taught with didn't have it and just went through the motions.

'I'm sorry but advising staff on debt doesn't make you suddenly gods gift to teaching or able to deal with kids who don't want to learn when you're used to dealing with adults who are being paid a salary and value their career.' I didn't say it did - but they already have many of the pastoral skills that are needed to teach. I spent ten years doing something else before I taught and guess what? I was as much valued for the life experience I brought to the classroom as a mature adult and a parent as I was for my ability to get the kids through their GCSEs.

I think that some on here are scared that perhaps they would be shown up by the military if they got into the classrooms. The can do attitude that the military possesses, as opposed to the 'oh it's too hard, not PC enough, let's not bother' attitude that is endemic in the staff rooms I've been in must be quite threatening to some.

Snap so they drop out,kids don't get to drop out they still have to attend school even if they don't want to.

Also there is the added incentive of a salary,not many 13 year olds I know have that little incentive ensuring they behave themselves,let alone rank/maturity etc,etc.

See I think this might be blown up out of proportion. The govt may just be encouraging those leaving the military to consider teaching as a career which isn't a natural step on the face of it.

Sadly I won't be able to watch the programme but I hope it's a scheme to encourage and complement rather than replace.

As for the cuts in teacher training there are too many teachers qualifying in some subjects (and not enough in others). Why train people if they can't get a job? Makes sense to cut the funding if the training isn't doing anything.

Snap ok so there are some who would make good teachers as they are experiences in training aspects for example a PT instructor could be a PE teacher, however my point is the ethos is totally different and culture, within teaching there are many different styles and strategies and these are sued by skillfull teachers to suit class and sometimes the time of day/week to achieve obejctives. I think some of the strategies used in the services would not be well suited to schools.

I think it stinks anyway purely because people from two essential public sector professions are being pitted against each other re redundancies blood bloody bankers eh? I'd like to chuck them into a few of my ex classes on Friday last period and see them squirm at very least.

People have been leaving the forces and going into civilian jobs for OOH - several hundred years now. In general they manage the transition without TOO much difficulty. Some of them may already have gone into teaching.

I've been very impressed by the ex-services people I've worked with.

Coalition - a friend of ours left the forces and became a civilian doctor! Impressive eh

scary have you been in my staff room? People are just fed up with intiative fatigue. The goverment should concetrate on sorting out exisiting deadwood and training for those of us who would welcome it.

"Val - but how do you know that the ex-forces person will try and persuade your child that the Armed forces is the life for them"

I didn't say that they would. I said that I'm ^not convinced that they wouldn't".

If they appeared in my child's school they'd be given the benefit of the doubt until/unless they emphasised or advocated a military career to my child more than they did any other career or until/unless they waxed lyrical about their former career.

Then I'd wipe the floor with them and the school whilst asking why, if it and they were so bloody good, were they still not in the forces instead of shoving their opinion of a brutal and dangerous occupation down my child's throat.

It would only happen once, I can promise you...!

Service personnel don't just live in bases - they have mortgages and their own houses. They are parts of their communities. They send their kids to local schools. The ignorance and naivety of some on here about modern Service life is staggering.

As for 'kids don't get to drop out they still have to attend school even if they don't want to' Ha bloody ha; many slip the net and don't turn up. They don't turn up every day if they don't want to, I've seen it again and again.

But they're not for 'troubled' teens, sidge. There's the 6th form defence college too, which again is a military school, but it's not designed to turn around kids with issues either. In fact I'd hazard a guess the kids at the RH schools etc were pretty well disciplined before they went there! It's that kind of ethos.

So kids don't get to drop out of school on paper but they don't turn up and then what's the difference in practice? If you can persuade someone to stay through basic training then I'm sure you can apply those skills to getting them to stay in schools! There are differences but not as huge as one might think.

scaryteacher Mon 28-Feb-11 14:16:55
Service personnel don't just live in bases - they have mortgages and their own houses. They are parts of their communities. They send their kids to local schools. The ignorance and naivety of some on here about modern Service life is staggering.

I agree. Some people think we live in closed communities on cmap which are completely lawless

Sidge the parents sending their dc to said military schools will support the school and would probably do well whoever taught said kids. What about schools with no parental support what so ever?

Scary I don't recognise a lets not bother attitude in schools I've taught in sorry, just staff who love their job and who aren't allowed to just get on and teach. "Can do attitude" pmsl .Now who is generalising,so most of us lowly teachers without a military background don't have a "can do attitude"????

Oh and crying because a teenager says boo ,as long as my dc leave a class fully educated I couldn't give a stuff.I worry about the ability to teach not a hard man veneer.

'scary have you been in my staff room? People are just fed up with intiative fatigue.' So are HM Forces, but they get on with it! I got bored with the whinge culture in some staff rooms. There are different ways to implement an initiative - take what works and bin the rest seems to be a good rule of thumb.

Val - they may have done their time in the Forces and had to leave, depends what kind of engagement or commission you have; some are out at 40. Why shouldn't they wax lyrical about their former career if they got to work in environments that they enjoyed and got the most out of it. You seem to have a very blinkered view of what the military actually do.

MilaMae - Ex-forces people DO tend to have a can do attitude, as that is their training. The biggest adjustment I have heard of people having problems with is learning to say "no" or "I don't want to" or "it's not worth the effort"

That's not to say that teachers other civilians don;t have these qualities as well.

I can see two a major success, firstly a fit active male role model for the boys to emulate and ideally that would be in primary schools too and secondly the self discipline positive attitude that hopefully comes from having been to a war zone and lived amongst people with absolutely nothing might rub off and make some of these little cherubs realise they don't know they are born and should do something useful with their lives.
might rub off on some of the teachers too

Yeah scary fair points but you cant just bin the rest when it is a directive from central government which you will be measured and judged against when inspected and everyone scrutinises league tables- I think you need to be more realistic, plus if you so positive why didnt you stick around longer! Do you still teach?