Ex forces members as schoolteachers, (Panorama tonight?)

[GabbyLoggon]

Are they being unreasoable?

Its a government idea copied from America
(suprise, suprise)

Training ex forces members to be schoolteachers (It has always been open for them to do that.)

Is it a gimmick? The trouble is Cameron learned from Blair the art of regular publicity stunts.

So it is difficult to know what to take seriously.

What do the teaching profession think of it? "Gabby"

Vahalla: the proposals that I've seen are aimed at officers and NCOs with a degree who will then do a PGCE. I think your worries about lack of parity of qualification or lack of preparation may be misplaced.

I would be more concerned if there was evidence that the OGCE route did not ensure a suitable NQT at the end. Is there a problem with that being inadequate preparation?

Jim McDonald off of Corris is a good example of ex-forces personnel that would have made a good teacher.

mama I dont think anything from WARZONES needs to rubbed off on anyone especially young people and children. How is that relevant anyway?

You evidently haven't taught where I've taught then Mila. Many teachers I've worked with don't have a 'can do' attitude. I didn't say teachers were lowly - I am one - so don't start extrapolating.

It's not about a 'hard man' veneer - it's about being able to deal with the crap, not running off crying or snivelling because one gives you lip and I've seen that with PGCE students and NQTs who fall to pieces when challenged. Weak teachers do not educate, that's the point, as the kids don't listen, don't get on with the work, as those who are disruptive get away with it. You don't have to shout to get results either - I'm not tall, but I can deal with huge Year 11s looming over me and have them apologising in about 10 minutes, or wishing that they'd never opened their mouths in the first place.

I'd hate it if my ds was taught by someone who couldn't handle the teenage girl stares and the grunting and sotto voce comments from the boys.

Lovenamechange100 I agree with you - it's just the idea that Forces personnel couldn't possibly have any relevant skills/are all as thick as 2 short planks/will bully children that irks me. Sone trades are extremely relevant but people don't see the transferrable skills.

It doesnt mean all ex-For es personnel would be any good though. My DH (navy officer) would be a useless teacher, that's the way he is. He's had to do some training as every officer does and he hates it, he can't deal with people who don't get concepts as quickly as he does and he doesn't get the concept of planning/sticking to what he's supposed to be teaching. He'd probably be ideally suited to a roomful of bright, engaged students at university level but that's not going to get him anywhere in a failing school. On the other hand the engineering bod who lives next to us would probably be wonderful - he often has young ratings from his ship over to give them a taste if home life, he's got a real gift for explaining things and when he's working he's got just the right mix of expecting them to knuckle down and making work fun.

RobF: what makes you think he's typical?

How about choosing real life examples like Kelly Holmes instead?

I was joking about Jim McDonald. He'd be a crap teacher.

The Sgt Major guy out of Full Metal Jacket would be good though.

Lovename - yes, I teach and examine, but dh abroad, so I moved after two years of him being abroad and us in UK.

I taught a non NC subject, so we didn't have to stick to what the govt said subject wise, and often, a new initiative had come in to replace the old one anyway, hence bin the bits that didn't work.

Some of the stereotypes about ex-military here are staggering

I'd much rather have my child being taught by an ex-military type who can instill some discipline and order in the classroom, than someone who lets them run riot at the expense of my child's education.

My husband left the forces 5 years ago after 26 years, he's got a Science degree and gets written to at least twice a year asking if he will consider a PGCE and teaching career. This isn't something new!

The ex-forces aren't just good for diffusing IEDs and driving landrovers, any more than a 22-year-old NQT is only good for boozing and boy-racering.

Wow quite a lot of ill informed stereotypes about the military on here. I have looked into this on behalf of my DH who would make a fantastic teacher in civvy street, he would still have to complete the same level of training as anyone else so it is a bit of a non-story. Of course not all military personnel are suited to teaching but there are many positive elements of a military career that would be beneficial to teaching and I come from a lefty liberal teaching family! These include a can-do attitude, flexibility, high emotional intelligence, natural authority, motivation.

As for military life not being like real life Valhalla and Milamae, that makes me laugh, we don't live in a bubble! I am as much a part of my local community as you are. Don't see how leaving uni at 22 and going straight into teaching means you are suddenly worldly wise, especially not more than service personnel.

As for ex military acting as mini army recruitment agencies for schoolchildren, this would not happen, if anything, it would be the opposite IME

Scary - blinkered view but bottom line - military personnel are generally contracted to:

A. Do as they are told without questioning it (I'm speaking of adults here of course, not of the expectations reasonably made of schoolchildren).

B. Kill.

C. Risk being killed.

Now oddly enough and rightly or wrongly I don't want people waxing lyrical to my children about those things. I don't want my children beinbg taught by someone in a position of authority that this is an acceptable career or lifestyle for them. No more than I want them to be taught that it's acceptable to kick puppies.

In my world these things are immoral. It is my duty to teach my children morals, not someone else's to go against all that I believe.

After all, we don't have Muslims being forced to attend Evensong and vegetarians forced to eat meat in our schools, do we?

To make it clear again, I am only talking of my children here - what you are happy to have your own children taught is entirely your own business.

X posted KatieWatie!

Valhalla - Lots of teachers have views we don't agree with. Children have lots of different teachers. I had a teacher who was a fundamenentalist christian. shrugs.

I don't think an ex-forces teacher will be teaching morality to any greater or lesser extent than any other teacher.

I don't think they are generally THAT keen on B and C either.

Valhalla , when you have experienced the realities of being on the frontline, the last thing you would do is wax lyrical about it. Especially to impressionable young people.

mama I dont think anything from WARZONES needs to rubbed off on anyone especially young people and children. How is that relevant anyway?

I don't think it would hurt for children to be aware they are damned lucky not to live in one for a start

Valhalla - I think you are confusing sublimating your own opinions in the interest of achieving a common goal, with everyone having the same opinions. I think the range of opinions that military personnel have on most things is wider than you think.

Oh dear Vall are you for real? I dont thik its a great strategy but..... [despairs]

Oh I know they're not schools for troubled teens, snap, I just thought I'd throw them into the mix to nix the military education-naysayers

I do think many aspects of military life would translate very well to teaching in schools. Loyalty, perseverance, effort, hard work, confidence, knowledge, initiative, management and leadership, resourcefulness and the ability to rub along with just about everyone.

But as long as a fair percentage of the population hold such prejudiced, narrow minded stereotypical ideas of what the modern military is like, it's a road to nowhere...

I think Valhalla might not realise the range of trades within the military, many of which are not combat roles.

Also, that it is an absolute duty (post Nuremburg) for everyone to consider if an order is legal and proportionate.

why cant ex forces people become teachers? as long as they have the qualifications to go into the teacher training programmes and then complete tem successfully.

From what i know, being in the forces involves team work, and teaching. loyalty and patriotism play a big part too. All qualities i would like my kids to have

You know we'd be in danger of raising a generation which didn't actively despise the military if we let ex-Forces people into schools... Can't have that.

mama ok so they would say that in the first lesson then what? Schools highlight these issues in mamny ways (assembly, RE, PSE, Form time, history)with out the need for first hand experience of a warzone. I just dont think that particular point you made is relevant.

Gosh wish teacher could apply proportionate responses to misbehaviour

TCNY - I too had a fundamentalist Christian teacher. In fact, given that my secondary education was many years ago in a very selective High Church establishment I suspect that she was not the only one. Far less worrying to me than someone who used to bear arms for a living.

Buon - I'm glad to hear it. :)

I know my views aren't popular and that we could all argue about them for ages. I've already said that I would object only if the ex forces person got to their position in a manner which wasn't available to others of equal academic qualification and only if they did force what are to me unacceptable opinions upon my children.

I'm off to walk more dogs now (and won't be taking my iphone as it'll get wet! :)

meditrina, I do realise that there are various trades to the Forces. My cousin was an Arny chef, as was an ex. :)

Both were trained to shoot people too, I believe.