Ex forces members as schoolteachers, (Panorama tonight?)

[GabbyLoggon]

Are they being unreasoable?

Its a government idea copied from America
(suprise, suprise)

Training ex forces members to be schoolteachers (It has always been open for them to do that.)

Is it a gimmick? The trouble is Cameron learned from Blair the art of regular publicity stunts.

So it is difficult to know what to take seriously.

What do the teaching profession think of it? "Gabby"

As an ex teacher who has worked in very challenging schools (including one with the first playground murder) I find the idea laughable but sadly typical of the attitude towards teachers. Everyone thinks that they can do better (until they actually try it of course). The really challenging students (frequently male) do respond well to male teachers but NOT aggressive ones. Usually these kind of boys have very confused ideas about masculinity and their identity. They often wanted to be 'mothered' by the female teachers and do want to idealise and look up to 'fatherly' males. To bring in shouting, screaming bully boy squadies would be a total disaster. The underclass boys will always feel threatened by this type of aggression and 'square up' to a threatening male teacher. Also, the ex-forces teacher will soon be shocked to find out that whilst one can discipline soldiers, one cannot lay a finger on a pupil and sometimes the only thing a teacher can do is send them home (hardly a punishment for school haters).

Bring it on I say. It will do teachers' morale good to see some hardened squaddie reduced to tears of frustration at the Jordans/Liams of this world!

Hmmmmm not sure what being in the military gives you re teaching as in the forces if you say job people jump if they're below you in rank. It must be one of the easiest professions to manage other people in.

My father was in the forces and freely admits he's one of the least patient people on the planet as he never had to be. He was always very well thought,ran air bases and had a very successful RAF career, still took him a while to adjust to civy life(as it does plenty of other ex soldiers).

Would I want him teaching my kids??? After suffering numerous maths coaching sessions with him during which both of us would have happily throttled the other errr no. Now my mother on the other hand who is a trained primary teacher with oooodles of patience and a gift for getting concepts across-oh yes.

Being in the military does not automatically give you a gift for teaching far from it.IIn fact I'd go as far as saying actually the ex-military are probably the one section of society who would find teaching the hardest profession to go into.

What a ridiculous idea, you couldn't make it up.The Tories just keep rolling out these ridiculous polices with no though what so ever most of which have a very schoolboy naive feel to them.

It's pure political manouvering.

The Tories have always been strong supporters of the armed forces, law & order and classroom discipline.

So this plays to their target audience.

In practice it will mean little. I honestly can't see many ex-SAS squaddies who've been trained to kill with their bare hands getting much out taking abuse from a 14yr old child whilst knowing he can't lay a finger on him.

As others have said, providing said military person is just as qualified as another teacher, I don't see what the issue is.

many a strong army officer will fall for the "Buzzing bee" routine

Lovenamechange100 - you have hit the nail on the head when you mention how kids respond well in smaller class sizes. Every teacher knows this. Strange the way the government don't use this idea isn't it? Wouldn't be anything to do with MONEY, would it?

MillyR - excellent post. Totally agree with every word.

'they want to put these forces teachers into units to teach children who have been excluded or at risk of exclusion'

that is a bad idea - many children who have been excluded or who are at risk of exclusion have SN. They need specialist intervention not hard love.

In the 1940s, 50s and 60s, nearly all male teachers had a military background (simply because nearly all adult makes then had). It's not so strange.

I would be interested to know whether the posters who express reservations have current first-hand knowledge of the military.

As the Armed Forces are one of the largest providers of training and education in the country, it seems to me there is a natural marry-up. Concerns about political bias seem very far-fetched, as displaying political views is not allowed in uniform, so ex-military will be well practises in refraining from expressing their personal views.

We had ex forces as behavior mentors at one of my schools, worked well in that they sure where scary!

Damn, auto correct, were scary.

Lovenames. I knew nasty soldiers, who you would not allow near schools, and more reasonable ones who would be ok....

Its just a question of whether it is Dave doing a Blair on a publicity stunt.?

Or whether we need ex military teachers?

Would a young career teacher fancy the military as a career and vice versa? (its horses for courses)

Will they play war games with nearby schools?

i once new one who retrained. found it REALLY hard. coudlnt just shout or order people to do things.
had to be engaging and interesting. and lets face it most service types are neither

^wafts the arm of generalisation*

"Will they play war games with nearby schools?
"

I just spat coke out

I noticed this artcle as well.
While I don't like the idea of encouraging youngsters to join the forces I would have thought some mature male role models might be a good thing?

Meditrina, I've never been in the military but I did use to work in homelessness, so I know that the most common individual cause of homelessness in young men is release from the army. If they can't even soldiers with the most basic skills in living outside of the army, I can't see that they are doing a very good job at training them.

Niceguy2: this is a recycled Labour policy.

fannyfoghorn: bullying is a disciplinary/ dismissal offence in the Armed Forces - no reason to think it would appear on departure. Also, shouting and screaming are not part of the modern military (unless you need your voice to carry across a parade ground, of course).

What experience have you had Meditrina?

What exactly have ex-forces got that makes them desirable?

As far as I can see ex-forces have nothing to offer in fact I'd go as far as saying their forces careers make them highly undesirable.

'To bring in shouting, screaming bully boy squadies would be a total disaster.'

Get it right please. Those with degrees in HM Forces tend to be in the Officer cadre and are not squaddies. Secondly, there are three separate services, not just the Army. Thirdly, many of those who might choose the PGCE route will have their own kids and have experience as parents themselves, perhaps more experience than some who go straight into teaching post Uni. Fourthly, the military isn't just about going to war; it is about getting skills, higher degrees and professional qualifications as well. People don't join up because they want to kill, but because HM Forces offers an unparalleled opportunity to work on pieces of kit (for the engineers at least) that it would be impossible to work on in civvy street.

I don't think being in the forces makes someone undesirable, but I don't think they are more desirable than any other graduate so shouldn't be given additional help in starting a teaching career, particularly as it is becoming a more competitive profession to enter.

I'm cynical and think it has to do with the massive cuts coming for the Armed Forces and as preparation for that the government is lining up "opportunitites" for the redundant military personnel in their fear of being seen as ungrateful to the individuals who have put their lives at risk for Queen and Country. The fact that they pitch it as something to do with discipline in schools doesn't necessarily have much to do with the real reason their annoyincing this IMO.

Milamae: current work in ex-Forces resettlement and adaptation to Civvy Street.

Gretchen. Never lose your sense of fun.

Yes Milly R A recent TV prog on homeless ex soldiers came up with the figure of "1,100 estimated to be living within 2 miles of the Centotaph"

If thats only half true, the army should be ashamed of themselves.

Will they play war games with nearby schools?

lol

lol @"civvy street"

are we in the 1950s?

Bullying,shouting etc maybe a disciplinary issue but the fact remains when working in the forces you have years of people under you doing what they're told simply because they have to and rank is a huge part of life.

Todays kids don't curtail to rank so what is ex-squaddy going to do when faced with a class of 30 or more unruly teenagers? He can't pull rank,he'll have to completely overide every thing he'll have been taught/experienced during his military career.

Ex soldiers have to re-train to get back into civvy life for a reason ie real life is completely different from life on an army/air base.

I think the officer element of it also concerns me. The army is so class based and the officer class is still drawn quite heavily from independent schools. I would be happier if they were drawing more from other ranks and giving them an opportunity to educate themselves and get into a career, as the forces do such a poor job of preparing the lower ranks for civilian life.