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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

WWYD sister and "inheritance" from parents.

218 replies

IHeartKittensAndWine · 26/02/2011 15:50

My oldest sister has asked my parents to sell a flat they own in order that she and her husband can pay off their mortgage and send their three children to private secondary schools. My parents have asked my middle sister and me for our thoughts before they make a decision.

Background: Fifteen years ago my grandparents died and left my parents a small flat in central London. They kept it and rented it out and gave DSis1 and her now DH a small deposit (they were newly out of uni and had no savings). They bought a large house in a part of London which was then down-at-heel and is now very fashionable.

Although they aren't well off financially they have a LOT of equity and could just as easily sell their house (a neighbour with a near identical property has just completed a £1m sale), move to the part of London where my middle sister and I live mortgage free and have enough left over for the older two, and pay for the youngest one out of the salary freed up by not having a mortgage. We have looked at prices for 4 bed houses in our area and there is good stuff in the price range which would enable them to do this. The part of London middle sister and I live in has a lot of advantages but is more suburban and less fashionable.

Oldest sister wants to do this because the state secondaries in their area are pretty poor. She has said that she will relinquish any claim to further inheritance if they sell the flat and gift her the money. Middle sister annd I were also gifted parts of our deposits from our parents BTW so we are not jealous. We are keen for our parents not to do this because 1) my grandparents flat would be perfect for an elderly couple and they could live very happily on the rent or sale of their house as they come to retire on very shrunken pensions 2) My parents were always very against inherited wealth and clear that our educations and deposits were all we should ever expect and we feel that oldest sister is trying now to move the goalposts.

My parents have asked is for our thoughts and we are thinking about saying all that I have put down here. I am aware that rather than a simple "no" the "why don't you move" proposal sounds very interfering in oldest sister's life... but at the same time I am keen not to say no without pointing out the alternative. What do you think?

OP posts:
BoffinMum · 26/02/2011 20:50

£12k x 7 = £84k

However school fees often go up more than inflation (which is why we stepped off the bandwagon - I didn't fancy being held to ransom).

CarGirl · 26/02/2011 20:54

Here it's about £1k more for each year IYSWIM

So

Yr 7 & 8 = £12k each
Yr 9 = £14k
Yr 10 = £15k
Yr 11 = £16k

I kid you not!

In fact they want their dc to have a private education without any compromise in their lifestyle at all Hmm

leeloo1 · 26/02/2011 20:57

My Step MIL's father (convoluted non?) is in a care home for Alzheimer's patients at a bargain £5K pm, like another poster's relative he wasn't expected to last the year and is now in his 7th year there. Scary amounts of 'inheritance' (not mine!) being spent there!

Would agree that your DSis needs to fund her own children's education and your parents need to ensure that their retirement is secure.

cumfy · 26/02/2011 21:08

Tell her to remortgage. They can afford it.

She sounds evil :o.

BoffinMum · 26/02/2011 21:47

I would not spend £16k on a day school place, what a total ripoff.

mollymawk · 26/02/2011 21:50

To me the main concern here is the massive risk your parents are taking with their own future. They really really might need a lot of dosh to provide for their own care later on. If I were them I would not be giving away big chunks of that now to someone who, it seems, does not actually need it.

Or is your sister going to fund their old age care herself?

CarGirl · 26/02/2011 21:52

Actually I have just double checked the co-ed school is only £14,400 per year from year 9 onwards - excluding lunch which is a further £765 per year but not compulsary................

SugarPasteFrog · 26/02/2011 22:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cumfy · 01/03/2011 18:57

How did DSis react ?

viewfromawindow · 02/03/2011 21:07

One other point is that if your parents have given away the flat and then DO need extra cash to cover care costs they will NOT be able to turn to the state for it. If they have been seen to deliberatly given away assets that could have been used to cover care costs the councils will flatly refuse so even the state safety net (ho ho!) won't be there for them. Do they really want to risk neither being able to pay for care themselves or the state helping? I wonder how keen your sister will be to fork out for a nursing home for, lets say, 20 years??, not an unreasonable timeframe given how long som of us are living now.

cumfy · 03/03/2011 11:32

Another very simple test is to tot up everyone's total assets.

Clearly, she has most and is therrefore last not first in line.

gramercy · 03/03/2011 12:11

OP - I am one of three sisters.

Some years ago eldest sister approached parents about their will, suggesting that inheritance was split 9 ways - 4 (eldest sis plus dh plus 2 dcs + 4 (middle sis plus dh + 2dcs) + 1 (me - not yet married or dcs).

So I'd get 1 part only! Fortunately my father laughed her out of the door. Later my father died and back went eldest sister, badgering my mother. She did this in secret and I found out at the 11th hour after papers had been drawn up when my mother who was by this time seriously ill confessed to me that she felt she was doing the wrong thing.

I had to threaten legal action and now we are all estranged.

NotActuallyAMum · 03/03/2011 12:36

I've just text my DH and told him I'm speechless. He text back to say he doesn't believe me. I said wait till I show you this MN thread later

Unbelievable. The cheek, sense of entitlement and "I'm the only one who matters and sod everyone else". Just absolutely unbelievable

NotActuallyAMum · 03/03/2011 12:38

Meant to say Shock at gramercy's sister too!! Honestly, some people!

LadyBiscuit · 03/03/2011 12:42

Shock - that's awful gramercy! People are so hideously greedy :(

TracyK · 03/03/2011 12:55

My friends fil put all his assets into his eldest sons name for tax reasons at the time. He died suddenly a couple of years later and the son refuses to give ANYTHING to the other sons now!!

If your parents sell the flat - they will have to pay capital gains tax on it - since it is not their main residence. That will be a big whack off it - they might not want to do that!

Although they might want to ask someone on how to reduce this amount - ie by selling their main house and moving into the flat for (I think) 5 years - then no CGT payable. If they can factor this move into their plans over the next 10 or so years??

BalloonSlayer · 03/03/2011 13:01

Haven't read the whole thing, so expect someone has already said this.

Possible scenario: they sell flat, give sis her money, then one has a stroke and needs residential care. As they have so much money in the bank, this comes out of the money you and your other sister would have inherited.

Politixmum · 03/03/2011 13:09

Like TrixyMixy and Gramercy I have had a difficult family/inheritance problem. Lots of people here are focussing on the financial issues and whether this is a fair settlement. Those matters are ones you should look into with professionals (lawyer/accountant/independent financial advisor - latter might not even charge a fee for advice) and ones you can only decide within your own family. However think carefully about how you go about this because the inevitable row may end up just not being worth the money. Your older sister may have got used to being bailed out to 'make up' for having to make way for 2 little siblings (whom she ought to have been brought up to see as friends not rivals). She is entitled to ASK if she can have thing arranged in a way that helps her out, although not necessarily to HAVE it all her own way.

My sister and I no longer speak at all, and although this is a bit of a relief to be honest as I have realised she is a whiny cow not the poor downtrodden soul I thought she was, it is quite difficult arranging for DD and myself to spend time with her much-loved cousins, etc. It took about two years of horrible letters, emails and (her) refusals to meet and talk things through, lots of time, energy and sadness before we got to this point.

So, as the poet Yeats might have said, tread carefully because you tread on her dreams, and even if she is a horrid greedy cow to have such dreams, she will probably be a very horrid tiger mother if it looks to her as if you and your sis are standing between her and them.

Good luck! You will probably need quite a bit of Wine and Brew before you are done with this.

xxx

BrigitBigKnickers · 03/03/2011 13:11

My Grandmother has senile dementia and needs 24 hour care. She lives in a private home that costs £800 a week.

£41,000 a year...

Two parents needing such care;won't take long for your parents money to disappear.

BrigitBigKnickers · 03/03/2011 13:23

Oh and I have an uncle who was a second marriage for my aunt who died a few years ago.

He has been persuaded to change his will so that his son gets everything and her two children get nothing in the event of his death even though my aunt brought the house and most of the money to their marriage in the first place. She would turn in her grave if she knew...

Bastard.

cumfy · 03/03/2011 13:31

BBK
If he got everything in her will then...
They should challenge the will.
Very lucky you know.
See a solicitor.

TrillianAstra · 03/03/2011 13:41

Oh My God. What a short sighted self centred sister you have!

From parents point of view:

  1. they might need it
  2. you shouldn't do something for one of your children that you can't guarantee you will be able to do for your other children

If she is still complaining about having been gifted a smaller amount for the deposit I agree with whoever said they should give her the difference to make it up to whoever got the most and then tell her to go sort out her own finances from now on. Don't forget to account for inflation

neighbourhoodwitch · 03/03/2011 13:43

No No No, for all the reasons given. If your parents do this they will be perpetuating her feelings of entitlement (applying to those who never grew up), and where will it all end. This is too too fraught, definitely no.

MrsKwazii · 03/03/2011 13:56

Wow OP, your sister sounds like a piece of work. It is very unfair of her to put your parents in this position.

I wouldn't make the suggestion that your sister sells up and moves, just keep on the point that educating her children privately would be her choice and, as such, she should be the one paying for it, especially as she has the means to do it. It may mean making sacrifices, but she (and her DH) is the one with responsibility for her children. What do you think she would do in the future if her children put her in this position?

I'm one of three sisters and am the only one with children. I would never expect anything from Mum and Dad to be split five ways - just between the three of us sisters. My children are my responsibility.

LionRock · 03/03/2011 14:05

I don't know if this will help, but Gerry Robinson has recently done a series on this sort of thing for the BBC. It's called "can't take it with you" and covers many families having discussions about how the older generation will provide for the younger generation in their wills, including advice from legal experts on inheritence law etc.

There's some info on the series on the BBC's and other websites. You may find some of the techniques used in getting families discussing money and wills together to be useful in your case, even if the exact details differ.

As to my opinion - any child can ask for anything, it's up to the parents to say no Smile. I do think she should be the one to ensure they realise the consequences of her request but that doesn't seem to be happening. Since your parents have asked for your opinion, I think you must give it.

Without meaning to offend of course.. but your parents may not realise the implications of helping now. If they've already made wills perhaps suggesting that they speak to their lawyer about implications for them in the future - they get the same info about the risks of giving money away now without it being seen as the biased view of other siblings. Otherwise maybe you could suggest some organisations (Citizens Advice or any other Help the Aged type ones provide free advice on wills and inheritence I believe). Or get them on the internet or into some books on the subject?