WWYD sister and "inheritance" from parents.

[IHeartKittensAndWine]

My oldest sister has asked my parents to sell a flat they own in order that she and her husband can pay off their mortgage and send their three children to private secondary schools. My parents have asked my middle sister and me for our thoughts before they make a decision.

Background: Fifteen years ago my grandparents died and left my parents a small flat in central London. They kept it and rented it out and gave DSis1 and her now DH a small deposit (they were newly out of uni and had no savings). They bought a large house in a part of London which was then down-at-heel and is now very fashionable.

Although they aren't well off financially they have a LOT of equity and could just as easily sell their house (a neighbour with a near identical property has just completed a £1m sale), move to the part of London where my middle sister and I live mortgage free and have enough left over for the older two, and pay for the youngest one out of the salary freed up by not having a mortgage. We have looked at prices for 4 bed houses in our area and there is good stuff in the price range which would enable them to do this. The part of London middle sister and I live in has a lot of advantages but is more suburban and less fashionable.

Oldest sister wants to do this because the state secondaries in their area are pretty poor. She has said that she will relinquish any claim to further inheritance if they sell the flat and gift her the money. Middle sister annd I were also gifted parts of our deposits from our parents BTW so we are not jealous. We are keen for our parents not to do this because 1) my grandparents flat would be perfect for an elderly couple and they could live very happily on the rent or sale of their house as they come to retire on very shrunken pensions 2) My parents were always very against inherited wealth and clear that our educations and deposits were all we should ever expect and we feel that oldest sister is trying now to move the goalposts.

My parents have asked is for our thoughts and we are thinking about saying all that I have put down here. I am aware that rather than a simple "no" the "why don't you move" proposal sounds very interfering in oldest sister's life... but at the same time I am keen not to say no without pointing out the alternative. What do you think?

Pouncey, that's a good idea. You should suggest that your paarents take this whole thing to an adviser for a feasability check.

That way, you and other sis don't get demonised and your parents get proper sound advice about planning for their future.

Journey, thanks for the correction. I misunderstood and thought it was the estate that pays.

MigratingCoconuts you could be right and I might be wrong! I think the op should get legal advice on this.

I think it is essential that your parents need to speak to a lawyer and an accountant to get independant advice. None of you children (adults) should be there.

I understand about the faith schools (I'm Jewish too) and the very high value placed on education but would your sister like to see your parents in inadequate care because of her plans?

Or would she be willing to have them live with her in the future until their demises (sorry) guaranteed and legally documented in return for all this largesse?

That might make her think.

I wouldn't even see a lawyer/accountant about this specific problem (though always good to see one when drawing up a will).

What I would say is not one elderly relative in my family hasn't needed some sort of paid for care in their older years. My gran had to go into a specialist nursing home having been the most sprightly lady you'd ever known. £3k a month it cost. Whatever inheritance her children may have thought they were going to get, disappeared before their eyes as she lasted years.

Old age costs a fortune. I would tell your sister this story in the hope that it's a wake up call for her. I think a lot of people think the state steps in to help elderly people but the truth is very different, especially if they have property/funds of their own.

I meant I wouldn't see one because they shouldn't consider it not because they shouldn't take advice ;-)

Either way, in the end, it is your parents money and I would stay out of it as much as you can (even though they've asked you) though I can see the potential for huge fights :-(. Speak to your sister if necessary.

I also wonder if your parents have asked you in the hope that you'll disapprove and they then have an excuse to turn your sister down which will be difficult for you too.

Maybe you should apply to be on 'Can't Take it With You'

I was in almost exactly the same position a few years. My grandparents died and left their house to my Dad and his two brothers.

Everyone in the family was keen for me to buy it from them to keep it in the family as I was the only one able to afford it. DH didn't want to though.

My sister asked my parents to gift their share if the inheritance to her so she could buy the house. I was asked if that was ok with me and if I had had said no it wouldn't have gone ahead. They said that their will would make things equal between us and I didn't feel I could say no.

Anyway fast forward a couple of years my parents are struggling a bit, my Dad got made redundant, they made some bad investments and haven't been able to retire when they would like to.

I wish I'd said no and my parents could have a better retirement. There's also a bit of a row over finances going on between my sister and I over who should be paying for extra childcare if my Mum can't cope looking after the kids. Sis says she can't afford it and I'm pissed off because she would have been able to had they stayed in their old house and I feel like I'm missing out twice.

It's hard to say no though as you will then be made to feel like a bitch, but if you can I would.

Also given the way proerty prices are and my parents poor investments it looks unlikely that things can be made equal.

Your sister is an adult.

She is responsible for herself and the three children she chose to have.

She is responsible for the part of London in which she chooses to live.

She has no right to her parents' money - dead or alive.

Her sense of entitlement is shocking and she is placing her parents in an impossible situation.

Shame on her.

And sympathy to you.

Trixy, thanks for telling your story - it does clarify the "worst case" . Dittany - my parents only got the flat because my grandparents died unexpectedly, and long before they needed any form care etc. What I mean about being opposed to inheritance was that they were always very clear that we couldn't expect the same, as they had provided three expensive educations and three deposits in lieu of a more expensive property or more investments and could well need what they had for retirement.

I've come into this quite late, so I need to summarise:

(1) Three sisters, each given a deposit for their property
(2) You (OP) are youngest sister
(3) Middle and youngest sister received deposits for properties worth c 250k and Eldest deposit for property now worth £500K (but was probably bought for about £300K or there abouts because of the price inflation since - I'm guessing she therefore needed a deposit of about £30K and you guys needed £50K?)
(4) Eldest feels hard done by because her deposit was lower.

Simple solution:

(a) parents gift her the appropriate level of recompense to match it - so for example, £20/£25K (latter to reflect current inflated property prices).
(b) Then declare: that's it, you are quits, now bog off you grasping ninny.

It is very unseemly to be attempting to grasp ones parents assets.

I've been thinking about this a lot this afternoon. The cheek of her. Your parents could live for years and need expensive care. Plus if she's only got a mortgage of 40 grand in this day and age, she should bloody move to pay her school fees. Or remortgage.

My parents are cash poor but asset rich but I could never ever imagine asking them to sell up to pay off MY mortgage and school fees (mine are only 22 years older than me anyway!). I think my parents would tell me to fuck off

Reality I know. How dare my parents have 5 bedrooms. They should move into a one bedroom and give me the rest. My brother and sister can fuck right off

Flat out, no! What everyone else said plus if they do this for her kids, they would have to do the same for all their grandchildren.

Is the reason your parents are asking your views partly so they don't have to shoulder sole responsibility for saying no to your sister's unreasonable demands?

Financially this would be madness as property prices will go up a lot before your parents shuffle off this mortal coil, particularly in London.

You should all be BUYING property, not selling it.

If she doesn't like it, she can always move out of London and downsize a bit. The schools are better there too and she could probably educate her kids for free.

I think she's being grasping.

I think it is rude to ask them for money in the first place. She should be ashamed. I would say no on principle.

I think what you need to point out to your parents is that they are giving up a fantastic retirement property and there is no certainty that they will not need all the equity in their current home to care for themselves in retirement.

Your sister has options to afford to pay for her dc to have a private education should she chose to do so (ie she's not backed up with no other choices)

If they go ahead and do this it will probably set a huge rift between their dds and huge problems in the future. it will won't it as your eldest sister won't recognise that her parents have given up for her, won't step up and help them out in the future if they need it because she feels she is entitled to whatever she wants.................

Not read whole thread sorry but honestly, how cheeky is she?! If she is that confident that there will be an inheritance, eventually, why is she not remortgaging her house for private schooling? What will happen when she needs to pay expensive university tuition fees, will she get your parents to sell the house they live in? What if your parents need nursing care? If you think her character is otherwise good, then the charitable explanation is that she has not thought this through. Maybe a financial planning conversation needs to be had e.g. your parents may like to say they are considering:

• there is not necessarily any inheritance for her to forgo at this stage (eg house price crash and see below)
• home care costs and arrangements e.g. 20 or 30 years' care could be needed - they could need care from the age of 80 to 110, for example
• university fees for all grandchildren
• house prices for all grandchildren
• wedding costs for all grandchildren (call me oldfashioned but I know many grandparents like to think of this)

If your parents are still happy to pay out then it's a case of the parable of the returning son and you and your sister will have to accept that your parents also love your other sister and would do anything for her.

Kill the bitch.

Sort all the problems out.

I have read most of the thread, but not all. Everything is screaming NOOOOOOOO!

My grandmother is currently in a home having moved there 6 months after my grandfather died and having had a severe stroke. She was expected to last about a year, but she's been there 4 years and counting. The home is really lovely - but is costing her £52,000 a YEAR. My grandfather made some excellent investments in order to ensure they had enough money to get them through old age, and so far, they haven't had to touch the money that was made on the sale of her house (close to 7 figures). BUT, if she goes on for many more years that won't be sustainable.

At one point, my father and his brother (who have power of attorney) were seriously considering helping out one of their siblings (there are 6 of them in total) with some of his 'inheritance' as his business needed a helping hand - luckily they decided against. There may very well not be any inheritance left, so I really think that your sister is being utterly unreasonable.

Unless of course she signs an agreement that should your parents require help, she will be solely responsible for their care costs in lieu of the extensive help she is currently planning on receiving. Given the equity she will have in her house, that doesn't sound unreasonable......

wow- your sister is incredible short sighted and I must say very self involved.

She is hardly badly off, and if she wants to send her kids to private school, then she needs to work harder, sell up or do something else rather than asking for a hand out.

Your parents should seek independent financial advice and basically work out their sums, the current Govt are changing care provision, pensions, tax and so on. I would not be in any rush to sell up any assets in the current market.

I am disgusted at your sister. Truly.