To expect a secondary school teacher to be able to spell? Warning; Long post!

[AddictedToRadley]

Please be gentle with me. If you disagree please say so (that's why I posted here after all) but please don't be rude or nasty as I'm a sensitive soul and take it to heart! Thank you for any/all opinions, they're really appreciated.

I'm genuinely interested in whether my fellow MNetters think I'm being a bit precious or if I'm right in thinking all teachers, especially secondary school teachers, should be able to spell and use good grammar?

My DNiece, 13, showed me her school planner last week as she was proud of the great comments she'd received from her teachers. To cut a long story short she is a troubled child after witnessing some dreadful DV in her younger years (thankfully nothing in past couple of years as her mum left her dad) and has had severe behavioural issues. She is now trying hard and knuckling down but has an educational age far below her real age and needs extra help.

Anyway one of her comments read 'X has been done some Amasing work today'. This is exactly as it read in her planner (X = her name). When I mentioned it to her she didn't think there was anything wrong with the sentence. Her mum wasn't too bothered, well I suppose it's the least of her problems considering the horrors she's recovering from and still occasionally faces, but still...

If a teacher's spelling, grammar and punctuation is that bad and he can't even spell well used, straight forward words then what hope is there for the pupils? Thankfully he is a Science teacher as opposed to an English Language teacher, but I would still have assumed an A Level in English was needed to teach in schools. This is a school with an excellent reputation and pupils travel a long distance, past many other good schools to attend.

So am I being a bit anal about the fact that a science teacher has bad grammar, punctuation and cannot spell words like amazing? Or should all teachers be expected to have good if not excellent English Language skills to be able to teach?

Sorry it's turned into a long post, it was meant to be short but I tend to ramble on!! Maybe I've had too many s for my birthday!

I agree, not being so pedantic that you remove all joy. However, I suspect some are rarely being corrected at all in some primary schools.

My son is in Year 1. They're not much into correcting spelling, or teaching them how to form letters, or anything so restrictive as that. They just want them to write, and I think are assuming that they'll pick up the correct way to do this by osmosis, or will learn it later, or something.

I am sceptical.

Granny, who was a primary teacher of the Old School, is equally sceptical. She is teaching Boy to read and write "properly" on the side.

Try French schools - my DD, in first year of primary, does dictation and copying every week, marked out of 10. 1 mark off for a missed letter, 1/2 a mark off for a slightly misformed letter.

My kids are at independent school and it is very traditional with everything corrected. But, their school is academically selective and they are bright, supported kids.

I would usually correct all mistakes with bright, able kids in my state primary class too. Not correcting the mistakes has a vital purpose for some children though.

DH is a lawyer for an investment bank. He often sits on their graduate recruitment groups. He is no longer even shocked at the state of some application forms. He always says, 'Do they not realise that they go straight in the bin regardless of how good they are?'

Agree. All friends in a variety of walks of life, complain about the general literacy prowess of those in their early twenties. I think it is not a lack of knowledge, so much as a lack of care or desire to proofread.

Goblin - 2 years. He has a PhD and enjoyed working with young people in a voluntary organisation. Unfortunately a combination of the way teaching is run these days (as mentioned by LeQueen) and the type of school he was working in (a v difficult inner city school with a high number of pupils from foreign language and/or low economic homes) completely smashed the idealism out of him. I will physically hurt anyone who says teachers have short hours and long holidays on good pay - he's working far less hours for far more money in his new job, plus he gets respect from his colleaques and superiors and from anyone who asks what he does for a living. Too often 'teacher' was greeted with a smirk or a smart arse comment.

I think, on the whole, teachers do a shitty job for not enough money and no respect at all.

To stick to the initial point, though, I still think they ought to be able to spell.

PS - Goblin - his school had a charming habit of foisting all the SN kids onto the new teachers and with class sizes of over 30 it's no wonder my DH was having such a tough time.

Another thought: one of the reasons I chose to correct the poster with the errant apostrophe in its "its" was that other kids might think that that was correct - even subliminally.

The problem with "its" (ie the possessive from of "it") is that it's now so often written as "it's" instead of (the correct) "its" that some people genuinely think that that is correct :(

The iPhone auto-replaces its with it's which is very annoying.

Prettybird, I always taught this in Y3. It is quite simple to teach the concept that if it's cannot be substituted with it is then it's its!

Apostrophes are not difficult either to teach or to understand. My 7yr old has quite a solid understanding of possession and contraction. At just 7yrs old he know that you don't add an apostrophe when you make a word plural. I am always amazed at how many adults lack this knowledge when you see signs such as, 'Fish and Chip's'

Lynne Truss may be extremely pedantic but her story of the NY subway graffiti always makes me smile. It stated,
Nigger's out!
To which someone had added,
When will he be back?

Oooh yes, "orange's for sale".

I agree - it's easy to teach - or it should be

Poor ds: not only was his maternal grandmother an English teacher who brought up her daughter to be intolerant of lazy grammmar but his paternal grandmother was similarly strict and brought up her son to be just as pedantic well-educated

(although dh's particular bugbear is "between" three things)

Ds is regularly corrected by us for saying (for example) "I done xx" or "I have went". There are many people in the West of Scotland who say that without even realising that it is wrong and it makes them look ignorant - I want ds to learn how to speak correctly.

My DH hates when people say 'you have two choices.' DH always says, 'No, I have a choice.'

Hmmm that's a good point. I shall add that to my list of pedantries forthwih!

Likewise!

Right up there with 110% and ten items or less

It is probably that the teacher CAN spell, just wrote really quickly.
It could also be as is a science teacher at my school - awesome teacher, but severely dyslexic.