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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To expect a secondary school teacher to be able to spell? Warning; Long post!

218 replies

AddictedToRadley · 21/02/2011 23:48

Please be gentle with me. If you disagree please say so (that's why I posted here after all) but please don't be rude or nasty as I'm a sensitive soul and take it to heart! Shock Thank you for any/all opinions, they're really appreciated.

I'm genuinely interested in whether my fellow MNetters think I'm being a bit precious or if I'm right in thinking all teachers, especially secondary school teachers, should be able to spell and use good grammar?

My DNiece, 13, showed me her school planner last week as she was proud of the great comments she'd received from her teachers. To cut a long story short she is a troubled child after witnessing some dreadful DV in her younger years (thankfully nothing in past couple of years as her mum left her dad) and has had severe behavioural issues. She is now trying hard and knuckling down but has an educational age far below her real age and needs extra help.

Anyway one of her comments read 'X has been done some Amasing work today'. This is exactly as it read in her planner (X = her name). When I mentioned it to her she didn't think there was anything wrong with the sentence. Her mum wasn't too bothered, well I suppose it's the least of her problems considering the horrors she's recovering from and still occasionally faces, but still...

If a teacher's spelling, grammar and punctuation is that bad and he can't even spell well used, straight forward words then what hope is there for the pupils? Thankfully he is a Science teacher as opposed to an English Language teacher, but I would still have assumed an A Level in English was needed to teach in schools. This is a school with an excellent reputation and pupils travel a long distance, past many other good schools to attend.

So am I being a bit anal about the fact that a science teacher has bad grammar, punctuation and cannot spell words like amazing? Or should all teachers be expected to have good if not excellent English Language skills to be able to teach?

Sorry it's turned into a long post, it was meant to be short but I tend to ramble on!! Grin Blush Maybe I've had too many Wine s for my birthday!

OP posts:
Original poster
AddictedToRadley · 22/02/2011 00:55

Mind you when I read back what I've written it does smack a bit of 'teachers should never ever make mistakes and just do their job'. This is not at all what I mean I just want the best for my niece as she's been through so much rubbish in her life and has seen things no adult should see let alone 4 year old girl (the age she was when a paticularly bad incident happened). The school and teachers have been great with her and really helped her through the other side. She wants to work with children when she's older and with the support she's getting she may be able to become a helper one day. It doesn't help with the fact that her brother is autistic so demands most of their mother's attention and DN gets pushed to the back of the queue all the time.

Thank you for all your posts it really has put things into perspective. Yes, the teacher was wrong to use such bad spelling, grammar, punctuation etc but at the end of the day it's what he was trying to say that really counts and what's being taught in the lessons/worksheets etc. In an ideal world teachers wouldn't make mistakes like this but being human and with the workloads, class sizes etc this may occasionally happen.

OP posts:
unitarian · 22/02/2011 00:59

I hope she continues to get those little messages of encouragement. She's lucky to have such a caring aunt too.

danebury · 22/02/2011 06:31

A level Maths?! faints

It took me 7 attempts to get GCSE just so I could train. And I've not used it since.

Bucharest · 22/02/2011 06:57

I'd be less concerned about the "s" in "amazing" and rather more horrified at the "has been done". It just doesn't make any sense.

A child for whom English is not a first language, or a dyslexic child would probably not understand that. And no-one can justify the insertion of a completely wrong grammar element in a very simple sentence as tiredness, a spelling mistake, or a slip of the fingers.

Quite appalling.

janajos · 22/02/2011 07:24

You know, in one of your posts you used 'wrong' instead of 'wrongly'. (albeit after a few Wine!). I am a teacher with A levels in Maths and English, but I teach French. I am a much better teacher of French than of English. I think that the important thing is, as others have said, that the teacher took the time to praise your DN. In an ideal world, we would all have perfect grammar (it often annoys me too!), but he is a science teacher, and we all know that they are barely literate Grin!!!

sandyballs · 22/02/2011 07:40

Well I'm so shocked that I can hardly believe it - are you sure your DNeice didn't put it in there herself! It's very basic stuff and yes a teacher should have a basic grasp of English, regardless of what subject they teach.

Goblinchild · 22/02/2011 07:50

Check who wrote it before ranting, did the teacher sign it?
I do agree that spelling and grammar are essential tols for a teacher to communicate, and that if it's an area of weakness, then use a dictionary or spellcheck.

gapbear · 22/02/2011 07:55

Has an extra 15 mins at the end of lessons to be praised or shown the next steps to take? Are you sure that's not once a week with tutor / year head etc? Seems unlikely otherwise.

I am a teacher, and it's embarrassing when other teachers make mistakes. Little ones are forgiveable (nobody's perfect - not even teachers Grin), but terrible spelling, grammar and punctuation in the space of 8 words is not good...

jetgirl · 22/02/2011 08:25

It's particularly not paticularly Wink
I do agree with you, but as others have said sometimes mistakes are made. I have several colleagues who don't understand how to use the apostrophe correctly, and we used to have an admin. member who re-wrote letters to parents and would put glaring errors in. Very embarrassing.
Happy birthday for yesterday!

JaneS · 22/02/2011 08:27

That mistake is really cringey, but 's' for 'z' could be a slip - I make those slips all the time but I hope I correct them! Maybe an opportunity to tell your DD that even her teachers get things wrong at times!

Glitterandglue · 22/02/2011 08:29

What depresses me is the fact that so many teachers have such bad spelling and grammar (and yes, because they are the ones setting examples for the kids, for a vast part of the day, using the language to explain their subject, I do expect them to be able to use it correctly) and yet nothing is done about it.

I accept the argument that today our general literacy as a country is so bad that if you were to say a teacher needed to write to a certain standard you'd just be cutting off huge swathes of people who could be excellent teachers of, say, maths or history. Fine, it's not a realistic approach. But then why are there not schemes in place to provide these teachers with training to get up to a good standard of English ASAP? I'd much rather have schools paying for stuff like that than for some of the nonsense training schemese they send them off on.

mitochondria · 22/02/2011 08:30

Are you sure the teacher wrote it? Not one of her friends?

If it was the teacher, then yes, that's very poor grammar and spelling.

You don't need an A level in English to teach though (unless you're teaching English, obviously!)

I have a senior management colleague who can't use the apostrophe. Had to put up a sign in the classroom about do's and dont's.

toddlerama · 22/02/2011 08:33

My sister's spelling deteriorated rapidly in her NQT year (she has an English degree) due to spending the majority of her day looking at horrific mutations of words! She can no longer spell "necessary" or "occasion". Ever.

sands88 · 22/02/2011 08:40

You are not being unreasonable, however it is a widespread problem and doesn't seem to get better! I was recently sent feedback from my university tutor containing phrases such as;
Four Example, Now you are in Year to.... There were hundreds of mistakes, and I actually questioned him about it. He agreed he should proof read....But still very annoying!

reluctanthomosapien · 22/02/2011 08:43

I went to an Oxbridge college. A few of the students studying science subjects (and who were obviously brilliant in their chosen fields) had a poor grasp of written and spoken English. One good friend was having to retake GCSE English while studying for his degree in chemistry. I was really amazed that he had got in, naively in retrospect. I think this country's universities are so desperate to get students to study science and maths, and subsequently to teach these subjects, that the quality of their knowledge of spelling, grammar and punctuation is not prioritised and sometimes overlooked.

ivykaty44 · 22/02/2011 08:47

I can't spell for toffee, so I wouldn't notice if a teacher spelt a word wrong on my daughter's work.

It is only really in this and the last century that spelling has become an issue. In the centuries before those people that were well to do and literate were not concerned about how words where spelt - this included place names, peoples names as well as other words.

We seem though have got very hung up on spelling nad eyt ti odesn't tterma

Athrawes · 22/02/2011 08:51

Most teachers do their marking in their own time, on the sofa, with their own kiddies running around and the dinner burning. Be glad that she spent the time to make an encouraging note for your niece.

practicallyimperfect · 22/02/2011 08:57

I doubt very much she has 15 mins at the end of every lesson- where would this time come from? As I send one class out I have another waiting to come in. I am quite a pedant, and yet I make mistakes in planners because I am distracted/tired/trying to watch whether that boy is actually going to throw that pen etc.

mrsscoob · 22/02/2011 09:00

I actually don't think you are being unreasonable, I would have been shocked too. I always remember my sons primary school report which mentioned his poor handwriting and the handwriting by the teacher was so shocking I had to read it two or three times to decipher what it said!!!

One thing I would say is that maybe the teacher was rushing, if he was writing say 30 comments it could have been a genuine one off mistake?

Original poster
AddictedToRadley · 22/02/2011 09:07

ivykaty44 wow love the last sentence! Took me a while to read 'and yet it doesn't matter', perhaps the headache and bleary eyes doesn't help. Hmm

To those who asked if I was sure my DN didn't write it herself, her teachers always sign it.

gapbear I think it's 15 mins per lesson but thinking about it it does sound unachievable.

Thanks jetgirl

OP posts:
zukiecat · 22/02/2011 09:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lovenamechange100 · 22/02/2011 09:17

YABU Teacher make mistakes, when will folk learn that teachers are do not know everything.

A teacher may have excellent communication skills and deliver great pastoral care, and able to put over their subject knowledge brilliantly and get great results, whilst still making spelling mistakes.

I am a teacher and dont think I am very good at spelling, I have trouble learning names too. But I have good results at KS4/5.

I dont think this is such a big deal especially as it written at the end of the lesson/day when there are many other planners to complete in so little time. A lot of staff dont bother to write in comments like this.

unitarian · 22/02/2011 09:51

In days of yore reports were handwritten and attendance registers had to tally. Teachers used to strike up deals with other teachers so that an English teacher would check the reports of a Maths teacher and the Maths teacher would balance the English teacher's register.

Now many schools issue reports written on computers and registration is done by computer too. I feel that this has resulted in many pupils in the same class receiving exactly the same bland report and the computerised registers are often wrong.

Reports, whether handwritten or otherwise, surely are still checked by senior staff so there's no excuse for a badly written one being sent to parents.

I do think, though, that this particular teacher should be forgiven because of the likely circumstances.

BettyDouglas · 22/02/2011 09:55

GlitterandGlue, I think it will change over the next 10yrs or so. We were the 'lost generation' in terms of teaching grammar and spelling and it didn't finally click with me until I did English lang A-level with an elderly lady nearing retirement who stripped it back to basics and taught us from there. I will be forever grateful.

New teachers coming through from now on will have benefitted from a return to basic teaching. Therefore, no excuse for poor levels of literacy.

I'm also in favour of a 'raise the bar' approach. Increase salary but also set minimum standards for entry into the profession.
It did annoy me that I had 3 good Alevels, a degree from a RG university, PGCE and was earning the same as a colleague who got 2 Es at Alevel and went to TT college because she couldn't get in to do anything anywhere else. Hmm

scaryteacher · 22/02/2011 10:00

I had an email from the Head of MFL at ds's school - a mature gentleman in response to a query I raised. Yes, it was an email, but it was to a parent, and the school in question is international and not cheap. The man is a native English speaker.

It opens Dera xxxxx

and went downhill from there.

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