To expect a secondary school teacher to be able to spell? Warning; Long post!

[AddictedToRadley]

Please be gentle with me. If you disagree please say so (that's why I posted here after all) but please don't be rude or nasty as I'm a sensitive soul and take it to heart! Thank you for any/all opinions, they're really appreciated.

I'm genuinely interested in whether my fellow MNetters think I'm being a bit precious or if I'm right in thinking all teachers, especially secondary school teachers, should be able to spell and use good grammar?

My DNiece, 13, showed me her school planner last week as she was proud of the great comments she'd received from her teachers. To cut a long story short she is a troubled child after witnessing some dreadful DV in her younger years (thankfully nothing in past couple of years as her mum left her dad) and has had severe behavioural issues. She is now trying hard and knuckling down but has an educational age far below her real age and needs extra help.

Anyway one of her comments read 'X has been done some Amasing work today'. This is exactly as it read in her planner (X = her name). When I mentioned it to her she didn't think there was anything wrong with the sentence. Her mum wasn't too bothered, well I suppose it's the least of her problems considering the horrors she's recovering from and still occasionally faces, but still...

If a teacher's spelling, grammar and punctuation is that bad and he can't even spell well used, straight forward words then what hope is there for the pupils? Thankfully he is a Science teacher as opposed to an English Language teacher, but I would still have assumed an A Level in English was needed to teach in schools. This is a school with an excellent reputation and pupils travel a long distance, past many other good schools to attend.

So am I being a bit anal about the fact that a science teacher has bad grammar, punctuation and cannot spell words like amazing? Or should all teachers be expected to have good if not excellent English Language skills to be able to teach?

Sorry it's turned into a long post, it was meant to be short but I tend to ramble on!! Maybe I've had too many s for my birthday!

I am rubbish at mental arithmetic, as such if I ever have to do it I take my time, quadruple check, use a calculator/piece of paper, ask DH. Especially if it is for public consumption.

I am not surprised in the slightest.
I used to work with a girl who retrained as a teacher (English Literature). She had no grasp of the language she was studying and relied on another colleague of ours to do help her with her essays and revision. This other colleague already had a first class honours degree in English Language and English Literature.
On top of this, the girl who was retraining was completely unprofessional, had no concept of boundaries with the pupils (she liked to be seen as their 'friend') and has many of them on her facebook.
I know this is another issue entirely but I am very surprised at the poor quality candidates that are now accepted onto the PGCE.
I don't think you're being anal at all.

Isn't it good practice (taught in schools) to check the spelling of something you aren't sure of, before you write it?

Same rules should apply to teachers. Lead by example.
On another point, people with English as a second language are expected to achieve a certain standard of written and spoken English so why not make this a general rule of admission?

You can be a good teacher and be crap at spelling, the two aren't related. However in that case check, check, check!

I am very dyslexic yet have a teaching job and my students know I have this and actually find it inspiring that a dyslexic person can gain a Phd, publish and lecture. Occasionally my written comments are mis-spelt but if I'm unsure I use a dictionary.

It's certainly not good that the comments on your nieces work was poorly spelt but as she is not an English teacher then I can't see it's a hanging crime as some of the posts here suggest. If it was the case that no dyslexics were allowed to be teachers then that would be discrimination, and imply that dyslexic students could be held back in the work place generally and barred from certain professions.

Teahouse for me, there is no issue if the teacher is dyslexic. As you have said, you are open about your dyslexia and that is inspiring for the students.

What I have an issue with is laziness.

People who aren't dyslexic who cannot spell and also don't bother to check their work.
IME people with dyslexia are not lazy about their work. In fact, for the most part they check it because they are used to having to.

psst - AddictedtoRadley - "that's what I mean. How are our children expected to get good grades etc when they're being taught wrong?"

It's wrongly... (sorry, couldn't help myself :-))

I trained as a proofreader. It's easy to miss the odd incorrect word even if you have good natural aptitude and are fully trained.

And for the record - I completely agree with your original point. If you are educating children you should be setting high standards in all areas, otherwise how will they learn? My DH used to be a science teacher and constantly bemoaned the poor spelling and grammar of the other teachers at his school.

I defaced a poster at a secondary school I visit on a Monday night for a Pilates class

They were obviously doing a project about European countries and had put up A4 posters around the school with various "facts" (eg "The Belgians like animals and many own a cat or a dog", "The French invented denim").

However, I couldn't let the poster about "France and it's Popes" go. I got out a pencil and scribbled out the errant apostrophe .... unfortunately, it is still visible as a "blob" - I really needed some Tippex

You defaced a child's work?
And think that's a good thing?

If a teacher had done it, it would be termed 'correcting' a child's work.

Oh and Belgianbun - hurrah. I learnt all my spelling at junior school, just got tweaked at senior school.

Yikes - I'm feeling brave and opionated today, aren't I? Oh well. Got bored of splinters in my bum.

It was word-processed and printed (standard laser printer) - so could easily be re-printed if they want to reinforce the error.

So it would be acceptable for me to correct all notes and communications from parents, because I'm furthering their limited education?
It's inappropriate to correct a child's piece of work in that context, and I speak as an obsessive remover of Greengrocers' apostrophes.
I have both marker pens and tippex on me at all times...

It was only in pencil, so if they feel that strongly about it, they can take it down, rub out the correction and put it back up again - or alternatively, they could print it out again, complete with error.

I'll find out next week (if the project is still ongoing).

And on the subject of parents' letters - if they were going to be put on public display , I would give them the opportunity to correct them before doing so.

I quite agree Radley, if the teachers cannot spell or use correct grammar our children have NO chance. Mine is not that great but I really try so why can't others?

LeQueen - I think I love you.

Doesn't surprise me at all. I know a teacher who recently went for (and got) a head of department role. He had to read Eats, Shoots and Leaves to learn the 'basics' before filling in the application form. It really, really riles me for some reason.