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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To expect a secondary school teacher to be able to spell? Warning; Long post!

218 replies

AddictedToRadley · 21/02/2011 23:48

Please be gentle with me. If you disagree please say so (that's why I posted here after all) but please don't be rude or nasty as I'm a sensitive soul and take it to heart! Shock Thank you for any/all opinions, they're really appreciated.

I'm genuinely interested in whether my fellow MNetters think I'm being a bit precious or if I'm right in thinking all teachers, especially secondary school teachers, should be able to spell and use good grammar?

My DNiece, 13, showed me her school planner last week as she was proud of the great comments she'd received from her teachers. To cut a long story short she is a troubled child after witnessing some dreadful DV in her younger years (thankfully nothing in past couple of years as her mum left her dad) and has had severe behavioural issues. She is now trying hard and knuckling down but has an educational age far below her real age and needs extra help.

Anyway one of her comments read 'X has been done some Amasing work today'. This is exactly as it read in her planner (X = her name). When I mentioned it to her she didn't think there was anything wrong with the sentence. Her mum wasn't too bothered, well I suppose it's the least of her problems considering the horrors she's recovering from and still occasionally faces, but still...

If a teacher's spelling, grammar and punctuation is that bad and he can't even spell well used, straight forward words then what hope is there for the pupils? Thankfully he is a Science teacher as opposed to an English Language teacher, but I would still have assumed an A Level in English was needed to teach in schools. This is a school with an excellent reputation and pupils travel a long distance, past many other good schools to attend.

So am I being a bit anal about the fact that a science teacher has bad grammar, punctuation and cannot spell words like amazing? Or should all teachers be expected to have good if not excellent English Language skills to be able to teach?

Sorry it's turned into a long post, it was meant to be short but I tend to ramble on!! Grin Blush Maybe I've had too many Wine s for my birthday!

OP posts:
swanriver · 22/02/2011 15:41

At primary level, when we questioned the way our dcs' work was not corrected for grammatical or spelling mistakes, the teacher said the LOs [Learning Objectives] were not spelling or grammar in those instances, but the topics ifysim. They tested spelling and grammar in separate exercises.
I could see their point, being that if you persisently criticize/red pen a piece of work, some children will lose heart when it is effort enough to write creatively or research.

But the problem is that by the time you reach Secondary, the kids get used to being sloppy.

Snakeears · 22/02/2011 15:48

I would expect good spelling (I am a teacher) although I am also dyslexic and sometimes have to make alterations when I read back a comment that I have written - if this was something done in a rush it might just be human error. Personally I would chose to focus on the positive comment - well done to your niece. I once worked with a student teacher and had to read her lesson plans. I had to pull her up on a number of errors including the line 'tell the children to put there pencil casers away'...where to start!

MrsHarry · 22/02/2011 15:49

I'm a Primary teacher. I'm not an English specialist but happen to love anything to do with words/grammar etc - I always have, not just because I'm a teacher. Also (or maybe because of this) I've always been a good speller.

I feel lucky that I'm comfortable with spelling and grammar, because most of the other teachers in the school (especially the younger ones) complain frequently that when they're marking children's work they don't know what correct grammar forms are, and they often ask me for advice. But instead of being worried about this or wanting to do something about it they treat it as a sort of joke, and they also joke about how much more I know about it than them....sometimes I feel as if I'm somehow odd and also a little anal!

What really depresses me is that most of them just state that they can't spell very well and that's it. While I appreciate that some people just do find spelling difficult (no matter what their intelligence or academic success), if you are aware of this I think it should become a habit to check the correct spelling of a word if you're not sure - in fact, just as we ask our pupils to do!

Surely it wouldn't have been hard for the teacher in the OP's post to check how to spell 'amazing'.

It really saddens me that teachers don't make it their responsibility to make sure their grammar and spelling are correct. I'm not a natural mathematician but I have to teach it to Year 6 so I often have to brush up on calculation methods/how to work out percentages etc. I don't just say 'Oh I'm not very good at Maths' and then laugh!!

olderandwider · 22/02/2011 18:00
IlsaLund · 22/02/2011 18:04

Excellent post MrsHarry.

I recently had to ask a colleague (Primary teacher) to change a display which had a caption saying 'What would of happened if we added more water'

I would have of been mortified but she thought it was funny

unitarian · 22/02/2011 18:14

I was once shouted at by an angry parent saying I had spoilt her DD's work by correcting it!
(Y9 English.)

BettyDouglas · 22/02/2011 18:15

I once had to point out to a colleague that her display saying, 'Henry sort a divorce from Catherine' was incorrect. The worse part was, she'd never come across 'sought' and had always thought that sort had two distinct meanings. Shock

unitarian · 22/02/2011 18:22

I've just seen my DD make a shameful spelling mistake on Facebook.......

I'm mortified.

MrsHarry · 22/02/2011 19:51

Well done BettyDouglas and IlsaLund for pointing out colleagues' mistakes on displays. If I do that I so often feel that people think I'm just being pedantic.

MrsHarry · 22/02/2011 19:53

PS The use of 'of' instead of 'have' is one of my real bugbears!!

echt · 22/02/2011 20:05

Try getting teachers in subects other than English and MFL to correct for grammar/punctuation/spelling. (Hollow laugh emoticon)

It seems to be down to the individual, and most, in my experience don't do it.

IlsaLund · 22/02/2011 20:14

MrsHarry I know all the younger teaching staff think I'm a fussy old pedant.

I'm only 41!

Funniest moment was when some of my Year Six pupils came back from another room and told me they had spotted 3 errors (spelling and gramatical) in the labels on the wall displays (teacher work, not pupil)

toeragsnotriches · 22/02/2011 20:16

YANBU. The literacy leader at DS1's primary school sends letters home littered with grammatical mistakes. It drives me insane.

lecce · 22/02/2011 20:34

In the OP's case I feel sure that the teacher did sonething I have often done and started a sentence, '"X has been doing...", got distracted and finished as he did. This is easily done when you are in a room with pupils and I do find it very hard to believe that he has 15 minutes set aside each day to devote to writing in planners - if he does I'd like a job in that school!

I do have mixed views on this. As an English teacher I do cringe at some of the mistakes I see from colleagues in other departments. Our head, a PE teacher, presented a powerpoint to parents that contained a 'there' that should have been a 'their'. My HoD pointed it out to him and he said, "But I ran it through spell-check." I thought that was poor beyond belief.

However, there are more important things than spelling, far more, and I say that as an English teacher. I have always struggled with spelling, though no with grammar and punctuation, and have made the effort to learn many of the commonly misspelt words since becoming a teacher. However, I often have to tell pupils to use a dictionary when they are unsure of a 'difficult' word as I am unsure of it myself. Some pupils have been a bit Shock at this ("But miss, you're a teacher!") and I always point out that that doesn't make me all-knowing and, while I certainly did have a propensity for my subject, and have a first-classs degree from a top university, I have had to work at other aspects of my subject. I think that is a useful lesson for some pupils to learn.

Posters have questioned the fact that teachers do not correct every error on their child's work but that would be incredibly damaging to some pupils' confidence. Moreover, a child doesn't actually learn anything from seeing a load of corrections on their book anyway, that is just lazy marking that doesn't really address the problem or give a child anything active to do.

Teachers should certainly check material that is going to be used on worksheets and presentations but there is a lot more to being a teacher than being good at spelling.

BettyDouglas · 22/02/2011 20:39

Until last year, we lived near Manchester. I'd say at least one member of staff in each and every school I taught in would say, 'we was' instead of 'we were'. It drove me potty especially when I had to listen to it during assembly or when I was observing a colleague's lesson.

I brought it up once during a literacy course and was told it was an acceptable regional colloquialism and not a problem. Shocking!

mitochondria · 22/02/2011 22:52

echt - I'm a secondary science teacher. I don't generally correct for grammar, punctuation and spelling.

If they get scientific terms wrong, I correct those.

I teach some students who are dyslexic, have learning difficulties, or who don't have English as a first language. I don't think it would be helpful to cover their write-ups of experiments in red pen. Or even green pen.

TheFallenMadonna · 22/02/2011 22:57

I don't correct everything, but I do make suggestions as to how the writing can be improved. We have a big focus on literacy across the curriculum, and writing a coherent explanation is as important in my subject (science) as it is in any other. And that applies to all students.

The new Science GCSES will involve extended writing at both foundation and higher tiers.

LeQueen · 22/02/2011 22:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mitochondria · 22/02/2011 23:01

FallenMadonna - will there be marks awarded for the quality of spelling and grammar in this extended writing?

TheFallenMadonna · 22/02/2011 23:02

Yes.

TheFallenMadonna · 22/02/2011 23:05

Quality of Written Communicaton marks.

In our current coursework, we already assess QWC.

TheFallenMadonna · 22/02/2011 23:05

LOL at own spelling mistake!

LeQueen · 22/02/2011 23:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheFallenMadonna · 22/02/2011 23:09

Not really the same thing, as you would actually have to teach Maths as a year 6 teacher. I don't formally teach English, although. as I've said, I am rather picky about how my students express themselves.

mitochondria · 22/02/2011 23:11

Is it a significant number of marks though? At A level we assessed QWC. One mark. One whole mark!

When I did English GCSE they didn't seem bothered about spelling or grammar at all. My GCSE was 100% coursework. Some people got their parents to do it all. I picked up more grammar from learning other languages than I ever did in English.

I always try to spell correctly, and if I don't know a word I will look it up.

I refuse to put an f in sulphur though. I absolutely won't do it, and they can't make me.