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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to expect nursery to wipe my sons bum at 4?

446 replies

reality1 · 18/02/2011 18:48

Son is 4 and just cannot get the whole wiping bum thing and panicks when his bum isnt properly cleaned.
He has said he cant have a poo at nursery because he cant wipe his bum so he waits until he is home.
I had a word with nursery and they said they are not allowed to they can only talk him through it.
The trouble is my son has quite an issue with this so instead of being talked through wiping his bum he will just hold it in.
He is only just 4 before i get flamed for wiping his bum this long and there are 3 year olds in his class as well AIBU

OP posts:
exoticfruits · 18/02/2011 22:27

Mine were older,at that time they had to be 3 yrs and toilet trained, they didn't get a place if they weren't and so parents had to make it a top priority.
If they take them at 2 yrs of course it is different and staff are trained (an expect) to deal with it. However we are not talking about 2 yr olds, we are talking about 4 yr olds.
People used to say 'don't worry they all get it before they go to school' and they did. This now seems to have changed, if people are saying that a reception teacher should wipe bottoms. Our local infant school has a male reception teacher so I really don't think that a young man of about 26yrs, with no children of his own, would want to do it, even with a second person there.

Dancergirl · 18/02/2011 22:30

What has the fact that he's male got to do with it exoticfruits?

Vallhala · 18/02/2011 22:32

I think that exoticfruits has hit the nail on the head. Times have changed and some adults appear to me to be more likely to... well, I'd call it pander to, but I guess the polite term is do things for children... nowdays than they were when I was a child or even when I had my own children some years back.

Children haven't changed but expectations of them have. I don't recall children getting to 4 and not being able to wipe their own bums when my DC were of that age.

SardineQueen · 18/02/2011 22:32

This thread is about a child at nursery though, a pre-schooler.

As an aside, I am interested as to why you think a young man with no children might not want to wipe kiddies bums. Our preschool has a young male working there, and he does nappies and helping with the toilet, I think he deals with male children only though (while female members of staff look after both sexes in this way).

I find the assumption that men aren't interested in this stuff/won't do it, and that women will, odd. I think these are the sort of attitudes that end up with men not lifting a finger for their own children, "oh well he's a man yo can't possibly expect him to change a nappy" I mean come on.

exoticfruits · 18/02/2011 22:32

If I was a 26yr old male teacher I wouldn't put myself in the position of wiping a child's bottom, the same as I wouldn't if I was a male beaver leader-just pure self preservation in today's climate!

Dancergirl · 18/02/2011 22:35

Would you wipe a bottom if you were a 26-year old FEMALE teacher?

SardineQueen · 18/02/2011 22:36

So you think that the man who works at my DDs preschool is what - bonkers? Playing with fire? A bit "odd"?

activate · 18/02/2011 22:36

I am a parent of 4 and ahve always had hordes of children running through my house

  • I wuold be astounded at a visiting 4 year old asking for help in wiping - absolutely astounded - has never happened in 16 years of parenting (apart from a couple of children with specific needs) -

so my question is if in my community every child by that age could competently wipe their own bum once they're out or nappies and nver think to ask - what makes your child different?

surely the only differnce could be parental expectation and desire to train

exoticfruits · 18/02/2011 22:36

Exactly Vallhalla-it was just the norm.I walked over a mile to school at 5 yrs old-there was no choice. There is now a whole list of things that people won't let their DCs do, walk to the shop at 8yrs old, boil a kettle, make toast etc,stay at home for half an hour aged 11yrs etc- and wiping bottoms for 4 yr olds fall is a symptom of it.I bet the same people dress their DC because they won't get on and do it themselves!

Dancergirl · 18/02/2011 22:37

Exactly Sardinequeen.

Apparently in Denmark there are loads of male nursery workers/teachers and no-one bats an eyelid. There is none of this paedophilia paranoia that goes on here.

SardineQueen · 18/02/2011 22:37

I think it's my bedtime Smile

Some interesting ideas on here.

I will pass the baton to dancerqueen and retire!

GotArt · 18/02/2011 22:37

Don't ever expect boys to learn to wipe their arses correctly, ever. I still find the odd streaks in DH's underpants. Blush ... hope he doesn't see this. lol

But do send him to nursery with wet wipes; they will work better.

exoticfruits · 18/02/2011 22:39

No I wouldn't wipe a bottom if I was a 26yr old female teacher. There are very few male infant teachers-all because they are frightened of getting in the sort of position that wiping a bottom could possibly get them in. This is why people don't come forward as scout leaders-it is a real problem in recruiting men to work with children.

exoticfruits · 18/02/2011 22:41

Wonderful if we were like Denmark-I wish we were, but we aren't and male reception teacher can't afford even an element of doubt. They would be mad to wipe a bottom.

SugarSkyHigh · 18/02/2011 22:43

Of course sardine I change nappies, support potty training and clean up accidents! But this discussion is about a boy of 4 yrs old who is capable of using the loo relatively independently. For a child of this age and stage of development - would give the "talking it through" support that I described or tried to describe in my last post. I respect children - that's why I work with them. it is also the reason why I want to support them to wipe their own bottoms at the age of four.

Dancergirl · 18/02/2011 22:43

exoticfruits - it's not a question of not 'letting' their child wipe their own bottom. The OP's child CAN'T (at the moment). Very nice for you that your children learnt to wipe early but there's no point in getting all judgemental. Would you have the same reaction if a child couldn't do buttons/use scissors/ride a bike by a certain age?

I don't agree with you about the good old days. I allow my own children a fair amount of freedom and my 8 year old walks to the shop. My 9 year old stays by herself at home for a short time. You are confusing allowing children to have a bit of independence with physical skills of which bottom wiping is one.

Suppose a visiting 4 year old couldn't cut up his/her food? Would you also refuse to do that?

McGill · 18/02/2011 23:11

I am just on here to offer a bit of support too- my son is 3 1/2 and despite nursrey ( where he does attempt to wipe his bum but comes home with skidmArks) I alwAys wipe his bum at home- to me he just seems too young to wipe it properly and he is not at school for another 18 months so plenty of time for him to naturLly get there. I am definately not an over- protective,wrap-em-in- cortton- wool kinda mAmmy- I just don't feel he quite gets the full bum-cleaning thing yet so I help him with it. Feel the op is getting chastised waaaaay too much here. Whether at 3,4 or 5 we all generally eventually can wipe our own arse.....

goldenticket · 18/02/2011 23:18

Interesting reading but the one thing that hasn't been mentioned is how children themselves may feel if they get to school and discover that they are out of step with the norm. Children can be cruel, even reception age, and I would feel sorry for a child in a school situation i.e. with greater ratios and a much greater expectation of independence, who hadn't been able to master this. It puts them in a difficult situation and you will not be there to help them - they need this skill when starting school (nt not sn) IMO.

TrinityMotherOfRhinos · 19/02/2011 00:49

I agree with the 'years ago it wasn't like that'

its true, when I was yong and caring for children by four ofcurse they could toilet themselves

becasue noone pandered to it

TrinityMotherOfRhinos · 19/02/2011 00:51

gotart, unless someone is ill or disabled, there is no need for skidmarks

DerangedSibyl · 19/02/2011 00:55

It didn't happen before the last 20 years because children started school at 5, not 4. There is a massive developmental difference between a 5 year old and a four year old.

DerangedSibyl · 19/02/2011 00:57

And Ds2 couldn't reach at 3, his arms were physically too short. Perhaps I should have denied him his preschool education as a punishment for having shorter than average limbs?

TrinityMotherOfRhinos · 19/02/2011 00:58

children now dont have to start school at 4

they need to go at 5 but not four

DerangedSibyl · 19/02/2011 01:09

They do need to though.

otherwise, they simply miss a year of their education out. They can't defer and start reception at 5, they have to go straight into year one, which, without the groundwork that is laid in reception, would be simply too hard for all but the most gifted of children.

TrinityMotherOfRhinos · 19/02/2011 01:11

I have no idea what reception is
I'm sorry

here they go to preschool/nursery when they are 3 and either start school (First year) when they are 4 or 5)

its up to the parent

dd1 and 2 started when they were 5 and a half

dd3 will be 4 and a half and one of the youngest in the year but she is ready and has been for months