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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU to expect nursery to wipe my sons bum at 4?

446 replies

reality1 · 18/02/2011 18:48

Son is 4 and just cannot get the whole wiping bum thing and panicks when his bum isnt properly cleaned.
He has said he cant have a poo at nursery because he cant wipe his bum so he waits until he is home.
I had a word with nursery and they said they are not allowed to they can only talk him through it.
The trouble is my son has quite an issue with this so instead of being talked through wiping his bum he will just hold it in.
He is only just 4 before i get flamed for wiping his bum this long and there are 3 year olds in his class as well AIBU

OP posts:

Horton · 18/02/2011 21:30

As a nursery worker I am uncomfortable helping any child do this

What age of child do you work with? I think this is really sad and hope that you don't work in any nursery that my child has attended.

emkana · 18/02/2011 21:33

Please stop laughing about the short arms thing - my ds has short-limbed dwarfism and so his arms really are too short - so it just grates [no sense of humour emoticon]

SardineQueen · 18/02/2011 21:34

nailak · 18/02/2011 21:36

my mum works at a primary school, and the nursery staff there say that they are legally obliged to take on all children of the right age if there is room, even if they are wearing nappies.

weefriend · 18/02/2011 21:37

why wouldn't you sit her on th stairs till she did

because I don't want poo all over the stairs! There would be no point in doing it after cleaning her up because she would just have considered it a fair price!

Also she got very distressed about the idea of doing it herself. She wasn't doing it to be naughty. I don't believe in punishing children for being distressed.

We got there eventually by persuading her to "try" and then I would check.

With DS I'm at a loss because he tries and tries but just can't seem to wipe in the right place at all. But we've still got 7 months to work on it before he starts school so I'm sure we'll get there.

I'd love to know how many of these 2 yr olds that do it all themselves are really doing it effectively. Or maybe they just do cleaner poos than my DC to start with.

And I know that my kids aren't unusual in this. From all the friends I've spoken to I'd say it's 50:50 if they're managing completely alone before they start school, and a lot of kids just hold on to it until they get home. My guess is that people with this experience are not posting on this thread because they don't want their parenting skills to be ridiculed. Obviously it's something we all try and get our kids to do. Much like, getting a good nights sleep, or eating decent food, or not playing too roughly. There are always going to be some kids that do better than others.

As for the days of not being allowed to start pre-school until toilet trained. Well wasn't that just wonderful. The ones who couldn't do it just didn't get to go. Either that or their mums said they were trained and sent them in pants to wee everywhere.

Caz10 · 18/02/2011 21:38

Taking the opportunity to ask a panel of experts...

...what is the best way to teach my DD to wipe then?

piprabbit · 18/02/2011 21:40

OP - is your DS unhappy about holding it in until he gets home? Is holding it in actually causing problems? Or are you just worried that it might be damaging?

I suspect that holding it in shouldn't be an issue so long as he is able to go at home regularly. Most children eventually settle down to a routine of going at a (reasonably) predictable time, so perhaps him being able to hold on is the ideal solution?

KCS · 18/02/2011 21:45

YABU. He needs to learn for himself.

I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea of allowing 'strangers' to wipe children's bums because it allows children to think that all adults can be trusted with their genitals.

God forbid, our kids won't come into contact with dodgy characters, but of course you never know so it's a good idea to encourage independence in the loo and not mind too much if their underwear is a bit dirty on occasion.

SugarSkyHigh · 18/02/2011 21:47

Well horton I just hope to god you are not one of those freaky parents out there that expect nursery workers to get 'hands on' in the wiping department and then decide to make accusations. That is why I stand back - I don't want my life ruined - sad but true, it happens.

SardineQueen · 18/02/2011 21:56

sugarskyhigh my nursery takes them from 2 and do nappies, they are happy to help with potty training when the children are first out of nappies, and I am sure they are happy to wipe a bum or two on them once they are off the potty and onto the big toilet.

Just because your nursery doesn't do something, don't assume that is the way in the whole entire rest of the world.

I do not think it is "freaky" that my pre-school deal with nappies and other toileting, nor do I imagine that any of their lives are going to be ruined any time soon by doing something that is part of the service that they offer.

Honestly.

Out of interest what do you do if a child has an accident? There was a woman in the paper recently who would stand them on a sheet of newspaper, spray them with air freshener, and make them wait there until home time. She has been banned for doing that. How do you deal with it?

exoticfruits · 18/02/2011 21:58

I think that the problem is that if your DC sounds pathetic enough they know that you will do it for them! If every time you talk them through it an insist that they do it themselves they will have to do it. It is like putting on a pair of socks, if they know that mum will give in and do it for them they will moan long enough. I wouldn't feel at all comfortable wiping a strange DCs bottom-I have never done it.

exoticfruits · 18/02/2011 22:00

Schools have to deal with DCs who have an accident, they keep spare pants and some have a shower. They don't deal with a normal DC going to the toilet-they do it themselves. It would be fun if the teacher is alone reading a story and suddenly they have to leave everyone and wipe a bottom!!

Horton · 18/02/2011 22:03

I am not a nutter, if that's what you mean, Sugar. I would not make an accusation of that kind against anyone unless there were pretty compelling reasons for doing so. I'm sorry that you seem to have encountered some proper loonies!

I just think that anyone who is in loco parentis, whether it's a parent of a child's friend, a nursery worker, a teacher or teaching assistant or a childminder ought to offer the level of hands on help that the child needs and is comfortable with. Obviously when you get to school age, the child should be able to clean themselves effectively. But for some children, they won't be able to and surely someone should help? I don't know what the cut off point should be, but it depends on the child's maturity, not on age, surely?

I don't think it is at all unusual for a child of four to need a bit of help, and I don't think it is necessarily bad parenting if your child happens to be one of those, any more than it is bad parenting if you child needs extra support in reading or dressing themselves or counting or something. They all develop at different rates. In the first year or so of primary school, I would imagine that most children will need some extra support in some areas. If nursery workers won't wipe a child's bottom, that just makes me really really sad. For the child, I mean. Presumably we are talking about children who arenot yet of school age and therefore are not yet expected to be solely responsible for any of their physical needs?

Horton · 18/02/2011 22:05

I wouldn't feel at all comfortable wiping a strange DCs bottom-I have never done it.

But what on earth did you do when your children had friends round at three or four? Or did the children's parents always come with them?

portaloo · 18/02/2011 22:08

While I sympathise with the DC who are struggling with wiping while at school, I can't see how it's practical to help every child that requires help in school, unless there is 1 to 1 help for the child.

It is a skill which needs to be taught and reinforced, but if a considerable number of children haven't mastered this by the time they start school, then what?

Would 2 toilet assistants be an adequate solution if it was only one child at a time needing the toilet? (One to watch while the other helps.)

What would happen if more than one child needed the toilet at any one time? Would they form an orderly queue for the assisted toilets? How long would be too long to be queueing for a 4year old, or indeed a 5/6/7 year old? How old before it was deemed unnecessary to be wiping/changing pullups/nappies as a general rule?

I just can't see how logistically it can work for teachers/TA's to be helping a child without SN to wipe, because the child hasn't mastered this skill yet.

It is only in the last 3 years that I have heard of children entering school still in nappies/pullups. Whose responsibility is it to change/wipe these children?

Maybe the same person could be responsible for the other children who are struggling with this?

exoticfruits · 18/02/2011 22:11

They wiped their own bottoms Horton! When mine were that age they had to be fully toilet trained to get a place at preschool. I don't recall any child coming around and not going off to the toilet on their own at 4 yrs old.

exoticfruits · 18/02/2011 22:13

The teacher or TA does what the parent should do -talk them through it. A lazy DC won't do it for themselves if they know that they only have to make a fuss long enough for the parent to step in and do it for them.

SardineQueen · 18/02/2011 22:13

I must admit that I would not have used a preschool that I thought would refuse DD assistance in any reasonable area that she asked for help - whether it was help with wiping her bum after a messy poo, turning a tap on or off, peeling a tricky orange, or doing her coat or shoes up.

She is only 3, after all. She is still learning, and doesn't get everything right all of the time. I send her to a preschool where I expect them to show her the same consideration and understanding as she gets at home - if they're not going to do that then it's not the right preschool for us.

TimeWasting · 18/02/2011 22:14

They didn't used to start school at 3 though, did they? So whoever said it's only recently they start school not fully-trained it's because they want to take them earlier and earlier.

exoticfruits · 18/02/2011 22:16

It was never a problem when mine were that age SardineQueen, people expected their DC to be more independent and DCs live up to your expectations.It is hard work and you have to keep doing it over and over again and not do it for them.

SardineQueen · 18/02/2011 22:21

Oooh get you.

At my preschool they start at 2 and most of them are in nappies, the preschool do nappies and also help to potty train them. It's a DISGRACE isn't it.

Why does this make you feel so outraged?

Dancergirl · 18/02/2011 22:22

'As a nursery worker I am uncomfortable helping any child do this'

You're in the wrong job then sugarskyhigh.

Do you also find it 'uncomfortable' changing, say, a 2 year old's nappy?

SardineQueen · 18/02/2011 22:24

In your world all children who have just turned 3 never have accidents, can wipe themselves perfectly, turn stiff taps on and off, peel tricky oranges, manage zips and tie their own shoelaces?

Whatever you say.

solooovely · 18/02/2011 22:25

I haven't read all the replies but was shocked by the people saying "well he is 4 now so should be able to wipe his bum". Well the point is that he can't do and so DOES need help. I'm sure his mum must be teaching him but it takes some longer then others. It really winds me up when people on here object to a child not having a certain skill by a certain age. Unless the parents are refusing to teach the child then what the fuck are you going on about? Slagging off a child for being incapable of something. That's pretty low.

By the way, I have a bit of a chip on my shoulder about this as a while back I had several people slagging me off because my child isn't able to walk all the way to school. They said that "well she should be able to at that age" . . . BUT SHE CAN'T!!!!!! She can't help it, it's just the way she is!!

Dancergirl · 18/02/2011 22:26

'I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea of allowing 'strangers' to wipe children's bums because it allows children to think that all adults can be trusted with their genitals'

I've heard it all now KCS. How incredibly sad and paranoid. In actual fact most child abuse happens within the family....does that mean you wouldn't want your child's aunt/uncle/grandparents to change their nappy or wipe their bottom?

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